Are great dogs made or bred?

Lol I probably should have invested this kind of energy into something more lucrative like a good career. I was just rasied to be honest. Lying and deceiving takes too much effort for me. If your honest then you don't have to remember your story. It never changes. I'm not good at being phoney either. If I don't like someone it is very hard for me to not show it. Even in a professional sense. I will be polite but you'll see it in my face 100%. Never learned to control that. I was raised to give respect until your disrespected, then it's take the gloves off and there are no rules.. Lol.

People saw it more in my 20s. I have a lot more patience as I get older. More tolerance for some things, less for others. Plus, I love to learn, I always have and I also love to help people. I mean, I hate my job and all but I've spent 23 years only doing work in the healthcare field, 20 of those years in the O.R.. Most don't do that kind of work unless they have some kind of will to help others. It's the same mentality for me with these dogs.

I really aint shit special. I am however as dedicated as they come to this breed of dog. People far more than not like me both online and in person which has allowed me to rub elbows per say with some pretty well respected dogmen spanning over 2 decades. That if anything, is what has formed who I've become in these dogs and you'll never hear me say I'm a dogman. It has a stigmata type ring to the word these days and I've never looked at myself as one.

Anyways, sorry for the babbling. This Alien Og got me blah blah blahing.

 

There really isn't any real statistics out there you could use in this topic. It's more of a personal experience type thing. I have had several dogs that I would bet the farm on that I had such a bond with, my voice alone will get 1 more scratch out them that they wouldn't give you if you were handling them. All game litters are not very common. Genetics is a very tricky thing. Once you think you know what your doing, mother nature will throw you a damn curve ball. Especially when taking about producing such traits we're talking about. There are so many factors to it. Genetics, raising properly and never breaking the dogs spirit before they get to show you what they really are. In other words, ruining the dog. Feeding and proper nutrition is a whole other influence just for maintenance. Keeps are a whole other chapter on nutrition along with working them to their peak with out the millions of things that can go wrong when getting one ready to show. There are so many more factors still that haven't even been mentioned.

Slim said it best with his triangle theory. The idea is to stack all of the odds in your favor to give the dog it's best chance to succeed at his task. You can't expect to give your dog 30% and get back 110% from them.

We could also go into personal opinion as to what constitutes a good dog to you. Thats a whole other can of worms. Lol

 

Yea the triangle theory is a good concept to keep in mind. I get what you're saying though.
What do you think about this... I watch a lot of Chico Lopez videos on youtube(idk about how the forums feel about him, but I respect him). He said a lot of bloodlines are ruined due to poor breeding, eventually dogs get watered down. Which is why so many low level dudes end up with dogs that have game blood. Basically he said that a lot of backyard breeders will breed out to any dog, saying things such as "I want to breed to a Bolio dog, any Bolio dog". Then he goes "Bolio isn't relevant to dogs of today, he was relevant to dogs of his time". Which is true, many bloodlines people rave about today came from dogs that were scratching 20-30 years ago.
Which also leads to think about buying dogs from overseas, I know Eastern Europeans ship their dogs world wide. The dogs from out there are usually up to date in their gameness just because of how lax things are over there. But I have also heard they can send you inferior stock without you knowing, because it's overseas. Theres also the chance of some psycho humaniac trying to rain on my parade.
Idk my mind goes all over the place, so idk if im being coherent. But yea

 

I can't say anything bad about Chico Lopez. I watch his videos here and there when people post them on FB. I like what he says. He kind of reminds me of a saleman though. Evolution kennels murdered him on pedsonline.

I do agree with the breed to bolio part you mentioned. I myself only care about the first 4 generations in a pedigree. The rest is just nostalgia IMO. If bolio isn't in the first 4 generations then he is irrelevant to me other than a good story.

I will generally call my own dogs at times Eli/bolio dogs but the realty is neither dog is relevant in my pedigrees. I will even call them boyles type. More recently though, like the last few years I now just call them geach dogs because that is actually what I have. He is relevant in my dogs. His son Geachison is very relevant in my dogs and any bitch used to create whats here whom go right back to geachiman in most cases.

Your chances are probably not much better by going out of the country, the still habe to cull too like anyone else. It's also not a cheap date shipping over seas. You could buy 2 other pups or maybe even more and increase you chances of a good one for the price to ship a dog across the world and the things needed to do so. I'm not saying don't do it, there are plenty of good kennels over seas. Just saying, it's a real pain in the ass.

The easist way I have found to do it is to use A-dawg to do it. He does evetything for you. Door to door but you talking 2 to 3 stacks depending on where overseas you would get one from, just for that service. Plus the price if the pup. You could just buy a legit winner ready to go for more for that so it seems pointless to me to do so.

 

Yea definitely, I believe a lot of what he says about the quality of his stock(plus the peds look good) but I also know his number 1 goal is to sell dogs. And he likes to sell his dogs more as pets to successful people.
What's going on with that Evolution Kennels situation? I never heard of it but it interests me.
I agree, the first four generations are the most relevant. If none of those dogs are proven, then you just got pet quality dogs from pet quality dogs.
I just looked up Geachison, he is legit.
Yea, I've seriously contemplated some overseas dogs. It is just a lot of money, inconvenience and hassle.

 

A question well asked is worth a or many good answer(s).
Thanks for your question. You seem to deserve a good chance with these dogs. Good luck !

 

Dogs from overseas ? Talking about the Balkan Pit Bull Terrier and the likes ? Different breed
I can't see broodstock. But it's maybe just me, simply because I do not understand what they are doing at all
Chico on youtube ? Not really a surprise, I guess.

Anyways, sorry for the babbling. Without this Alien Og got me blah blah blahing.

 

I'm on Haze x Ed's Super Bud right now. Does not really exists, lol.

 

hello, I share 100% your comments about dogs, I feel very identified with AGK, both in dog philosophy, number of dogs, facilities, etc etc ...
I have some small facilities to house 5 dogs, all of concrete with sewer drain ... very important the drain to sewer to keep clean facilities, diseases ...
my advice to anyone who wants to have dogs, do you like to clean dog poop? because that is what you are going to do in dogs ...
On the issue of importing dogs, I am in Europe, and I think that Americans want to import dogs from Europe, and Europeans from America (usa, mexico etc)
I have made all the possible inventions with dogs, puppies, adult dogs, bought from breeders, finally I have opted for own litters, health guarantees and exact origin of dogs, age etc ...
About Chico Lopez, I think it's an interesting dogman I follow your videos and comments, great dogman, I currently believe that he sells his castrated puppies and at the price of $ 2500, that each one draw their conclusions ...., he looks for a market niche that seems what is going well
On the subject in question I think you have to put everything you can in the dog, you can not ask them to give everything and you just give them a small part.
Having said that, I think that if you are going to put all the effort into raising a dog you should be motivated, parents, siblings, cousins of the dog who have had some merit but is wasting time and money.

Greetings to all

PS: I write with a translator I do not speak English.

 

Evo just knows Chico personally. They've had a falling out and evo just told people his expierence with dealing with Chico for many many years. Both with the dogs and in a personal level. I have to go to work here soon but it's slow today so I'll find the post and post it. It's a long read that consists of nothing but evos expierence with chico over the years. It's pretty damaging to TCF character to
say the least.

Personally, I'd go to Evo over Chico but both will rape you on a pup.

It will be one very well bred animal though. Just couldn't see paying that kind of money for a pup.

 

Post from Evo to Chico.

I've sat by idle time and time again as you post your bullshit lies on your facebook and pedigrees online account over and over again. I fear what has happened is that since it's been uncontested, the general brainless public has taken what you say as truth. Nothing can be further from the truth. I am going to adress four topics that include your history of ripping people off, your blatant lies, your RAT past, and your bullshit track record.

Your history of dishonesty and lack of moral code comes from your adolescence. It stems from the first job working in the electronics shop in New York City acoss from the Lowe's hotel. You were a bait and switch specialist who sold a 200.00 piece of equiment for 2,000.00 to unsuspecting tourist that you were sure you would never seen again. You received death threats from clients, a cauldron of complaint letters, but that mattered none. The important thing is that you made your commission ripping people off by lying and cheating every day. That was your first job, and what it did was establish an immorral and unethical beleif system that you still carry with you today.

When you came to Houston with your ass in your hand broke and starving from NYC, my brother and I helped you stake your bullshit dogs up until 6 in the morning. We gave you a job at the furniture store, MY GRANDMOTHER COOKED YOU FOOD. You sat at our table you UNGRATEFULL FUCK! However, Lets not digress, we are talking about your lack of moral code. Your tenure at the furniture store was short lived. You recieved countless comlaints for guess what... yes.. ripping people off. The furniture protection plan was 10% of the furniture price.. you gouged your customers 15 and 20 percent. You did the same thing with the fabric guard, charging poor latino customers double the amount because they trusted you. At the end, NOT ONE PERSON out of the 200 people there wanted to work with you, so you quit. You quit to work for guess who? Ameriquest Mortgage. See the link: http://www.ripoffreport.com/r/AMERI...TIVE-FRAUDS-LIARS-UNETHICAL-ILLEGAL-OR-157350

This was the perfect job for you. You did so very well at it because that is who you are, a rip off artist, deceptive, fraud, liar, unethical to the bone. Its what you learned as an adolescent, it' what you've made a career of. The problem is that you spew bullshit long enough that people believe you. Too bad for them.

Moving forward. A brief history in time for those that are unaware. Your bitch Cheyenne , mother of the 13 minute Ch.Awesomecur was a cur herself. You picked her up in 6 minutes at BB's when Downtown was butchering your ass as he always did. Downtown OWNS you. You never beat him, you never will. Next, you had Gr.Ch.Machobuck's littermate brother who was an excellent show dog. You started talking shit that he was the best in the litter, he was not, but he was damned good. However...YOU ..MR.GENIUS DOGMAN decided that another 3cc's of EPO would be better to give a dog that already had a 51 HCT count. It ws STUPID. Here's a fact Mr.Genius.. too many RBC's clog up the bood. They make it like molasis, it leads to a stroke. YOU MESSED UP YOUR DOG BECAUSE YOU'RE AN IDIOT with 2nd grade education that looks at the color of the vitamins because you struggle reading. Anyhow, the dog stopped , and we made champion, and that was the start of your resentment. To compound matters, you started talking shit about Ch.Awesomecur and Machobuck, and we told you, go get the Gr.Ch.Title and we'll do it. Well guess what, you got your ass handed to you in 13 minutes as you always do when you go into real dogmen and not taco stand owners. To make maters worse, the dog that beat Ch.Aweomesuck in 13 minutes got beat by a son of Machobuck's littermate sister and Barcuda. BOOM. Your resentment grew. To this day, you lost, we won, you still lose sleep over it.

Second, the story of you CURING Machobucks sterility.. ABSOLUTE BULLSHIT. Listen here you ignorant fucktard: THERE IS NO CURE FOR STERLITY. PERIOD. Victor was feedng Maachobuck corn and had him in a basement with no sunlight so his semen count was low. You took him for 3 weeks, gave him some Berenyl, and fed him good food. Thats a cure? WOW! You should sell that formula to every vet in the world. You'll make millions of dollars! IT'S STUPID, another lie, another deception, another fraud. What you did do is draw his semen and AFTER you drew it, you came to town and asked if you could get his permission to register dogs. YOU LYING FUCK! NEWSBLAST.. a piece of paper giving you permission to register a dog doesn't prove you found a cure to sterility for dogs, it just shows how stupid you are.

Moving on.. You go on telling people that we are rats?! FUCK YOU. It's time for the world to know the truth. The only RAT time and time again is YOU. Here is the proof: an article from the newspaper. You're the Texas guy:

Suspect's Business Was Used As Arena
June 21, 2000|By Susan Jacobson of The Sentinel Staff
KISSIMMEE -- The owner of a body shop where police say up to 200 spectators watched dogs fight was arrested Tuesday.

Henry Morris III, 27, was charged with fighting and baiting animals, a third-degree felony. Deputy sheriffs served a warrant after the State Attorney's Office decided to prosecute. Deputies confiscated eight dogs during a search of Morris' business, Dreamworks Restoration, at 10 p.m. on June 12.

Morris allowed deputies, who were acting on an anonymous tip, to search his business at 2717 Old Dixie Highway. They found aluminum bleachers, portable kennels, 12-inch plastic sticks commonly used to provoke dogs and a makeshift ring consisting of a piece of bloodstained carpet, according to court documents.

Morris, who was released on $10,000 bail Tuesday, would not comment. He has an arrest record that includes drug, burglary and battery charges. He was convicted in 1997 of cocaine possession and previously of resisting arrest and fleeing and eluding, court records show.

Seven of the eight dogs deputies found this month remain at the county animal control shelter. The eighth was released the day after the raid after the owner paid a fine. The county hasn't decided what to do with the rest of the dogs, spokeswoman Twis Hoang said.

At the time of the search, one dog owner from South Florida said he and the others were merely showing their pets. The owners came from as far away as Texas. No one else has been charged.

Assistant State Attorney Hal Epperson was not available Tuesday for comment on whether additional charges are being considered.

Deputies confiscated eight dogs during a search of Morris' business, Dreamworks Restoration, at 10 p.m. on June 12.

Morris allowed deputies, who were acting on an anonymous tip, to search his business at 2717 Old Dixie Highway. They found aluminum bleachers, portable kennels, 12-inch plastic sticks commonly used to provoke dogs and a makeshift ring consisting of a piece of bloodstained carpet, according to court documents.

Morris, who was released on $10,000 bail Tuesday, would not comment. He has an arrest record that includes drug, burglary and battery charges. He was convicted in 1997 of cocaine possession and previously of resisting arrest and fleeing and eluding, court records show.

Seven of the eight dogs deputies found this month remain at the county animal control shelter. The eighth was released the day after the raid after the owner paid a fine. The county hasn't decided what to do with the rest of the dogs, spokeswoman Twis Hoang said.

At the time of the search, one dog owner from South Florida said he and the others were merely showing their pets. The owners came from as far away as Texas. No one else has been charged. Assistant State Attorney Hal Epperson was not available Tuesday for comment on whether additional charges are being considered."

 

In this show, that got raided, The cops didn't check a van that had three dogs, and what did you do, you told te cops, "If you're going to take my dog, you're going to take ALL of them," and you told the cops that there was 3 more dogs in that van. They were confiscated and destroyed. At that point, the Latin boys beat the shit out of you and you had CML beg them to stop beating your RAT ass.

You then signed an affadavit that the other guys that were there were fighting dogs, and because of that signed affadavit, you got your dog out. That affadavit was used in discovery against Henry Morris. His attorney in Kisamee was Robert Nesmith. Need more eyewitnesses, call Albert with Latin Boy Kennels. They still have dogs. You guys look it up if you need to. BOOM.. You have been exposed you lying cheating rat motherfucker . Furthermore, when Downtown got out, you threatened to forward an email to his parole officer where Downtown threatened you because your stealing ass didnt want to give Downtown back Ch.Bisexual and the rest of his dogs. Again.. you RATTED before, and you continue by threatening to do the same. Furthermore, you threatened to call my boss at the bank and tell her that I am invoved with these dogs. Again.. YOU'RE a rat piece of shit. Call her, I do nothing illegal. I'm clean.

Back your lying and cheating. You wrote some big article in Rudy's scratchback magazine about Gr.Ch.Hannah in Tenessee where Hannah showed DG in a win. You wrote about some "beautiful black dog" that went against Hannah... Again.. LYING and DECEPTION.. YOU WEREN'T EVEN THERE!! The bitch's name was BLONDIE!! She was a yellow rednose Virgil dog. LOOK AT THAT STORY YOU WROTE IN SCRATCHBACK MAGAZINE. A BLACK DOG? REALLY? The sad thing is that you start to beleive your own BULLSHIT. The fact that you woud make up a story to people a that You were at a classic show when you werent even there is a window as to just how much of an INSECURE BITCH YOU ARE. But thats the next topic. You got disqualified in Mexico and you cried like a bitch and they made it a draw, the next day it was a win, the next day..BIS???? GET THE FUCK OUTTA HERE. Let me ask you this.. WHO GOT THE POT? THEY DID. Another lie, another fraud, more deception. Ch.Copperday... complete BULLSHIT!! You handled that bitch without a turn being called , which should have earned you another disqualification, but the ref didn't want to hear your shit from your CHEATING move, and called it a draw. Would Copperday have won?.. probaby, she was ahead as usual against a greenhorn opponent. Did she? NO. It ws a draw. Next day win, day after that BIS? ANOTHER LIE, ANOTHER FRAUD, ANOTHER DECEPTION. Did you get the pot? NO.. You guys have doubt? Cll Twin City Kennels in the VI. Back in the day you got DISQUALIFIED for using a sharpened Metal tooth against Captain America. Again.. CHEATING FUCK.

The list is long. YOU ARE A FRAUD. It is who you are. You've ripped people off all over the world, and you carry yourself with this arrogant attitude , always insulting, always belittling people, you do this to make YOURSELF feel better because when you look in the mirror, YOU SEE FRAUD . YOU KNOW YOU ARE A LIE, YOU SEE THE SHAME. You can fool others, but you can't fool yourelf, and thats why you're an asshole. You're an INSECURE bitch. If you were a woman , you'd be a street prostitue with a pimp for protection. You're so WORRIED about what people think of you. Let me CLUE YOUR IGNORANT ASS IN... SELFWORTH comes from within. A confident secure man doesn't value himself by what others think of him. He knows it when he looks in the mirror. And thats why you insult people, thats why you belittle people, thats why you talk down to people, because YOU KNOW THAT YOU AREN'T worth a shit, and you do that to try to make yourself feel better about the FRAUD that you really are.

Downtown OWNS YOU. As long as you're using Machobuck dogs, I OWN YOU, anytime you go into a seasoned dogman...THEY OWN YOU. Good luck beating greenhorns its youre only chance. One last thing.. MONEY DOESN'T BUY CLASS. It shows some people have bad tastes. Thats all. You've always been a FUCKTARD, NOW , Youre just a fucktard with money.

Call my JOB YOU RAT MOTHERFUCKER.. DO WHAT YOU GOTTA DO. It's worth getting fired to EXPOSE your RAT ASS!

Lastly,

FUCK YOU!!!!

 

I know it's pretty off topic but since it was asked for in this thread, I posted it.


Back to the topic.

I can better see now with slims last few posts that man made and breeding really go hand in hand. Here is what I mean.....

Man had to choose the dogs being bred, man has to raise pups up, man has to promote and campaign dog. Etc.
But the dog has to be bred for the specific task to begin with, the genetics has to be there. They do really go hand in hand. You won't get a beagal to be a gamedog because of the man standing behind it so the genes have to be there to start with which leans me back to breeding again. Lol it really is a complete circle that involves many different aspects to come into play for a dog to turn out good and the more of the aspects you master, the more you will be stacking the odds in your dogs favor.

 

It's obvious from the post that CHICO is a man with psychopathic personality. I noticed that from his video.. The way he talked Reminded me a lot of my first bjj coach who was a fraud a cheat and egomaniac and i believe he is a psychopath.. Just like chico.

 

That was a lot to read, I'll stay neutral on the topic but it gives me a new perspective on things.
And while I may not be experienced with "game dogs" per say, I do have a UKC "American Pitbull Terrier", which most likely means that it's a bully/amstaff/staffbull type, but I still feel like she helped me a lot to understand how to raise a dog.
I keep her as a house pet though, and I like to try out conditioning methods with her.
With these forums it seems a lot easier to have access to game pups, I hope I'll get one very soon. I appreciate all the perspectives.

 

You need to experience the game first hand.. Or you'll never know if its for you or not. You might walkout thinking I wanna handle my own in future.. Or you might walk out and never wanna come back lol.