Anyone running NIGERINO blood?

Well said Ben...to me papers are only papers used for sales and some history and it can lead a person down the wrong road....I like to focus my buys and hope on the dogman i got the dogs from...I have a yard of around 20 dogs and within the 15 years of owning the breed i have papered 7 dogs and just started to paper again for sales and people that think a dog is worthless with out papers...but in the back of my mind when i worked a dog and hear someone say, man that is an awesome bulldog. too bad hes not registered. i laugh to my self thinking you should have seen his grandpa... long story short papers sell but a true bulldog that produces will always be a bulldog and throw bulldogs...lay those papers around a chain setup and see what the dog thinks about them!! I was lucky enough to get shown from some old timers that held their papers close to their toilet paper but knew how their dogs where bred!! and a few of these ole timers are on the papers that alot of yall have today! JMO

 

i get wat u are saying ben. all i am saying is that it is possible to get that colo. now the ped may be false i dont no but it is not suprising for me to see that color because i can see where it comes from and the dogs i mentioned like bolero and miss bolero well i believe there peds because the man behind those dogs has never once been acused of hanging papoers and preaches how important true peds are and he has also not pred to certain dogs that he though highly of due to there questionable pedigree.

 

you got to go with what you feel boze. i believe in what my eyes tell me over what my ears tell me. it's cool though bud.

 

I always find it interesting when people debate color on a thread intended to debate a line of dogs, it is always one OPINION against anothers and it always ends in a stalemate, one man saying " I think im right" and another man saying "I think your wrong".

Now if one was to look at the ped and assume it was true all one would have to do is trace the ancestry back say 50 years ( after a single point in time that they beleived the ped to be true) and review the offspring down from that point to to either prove or disprove the lines ability to produce the color in question, in this case Rednose is the debate. Now because the Fat Bills breedings have been discussed lets start there.

McCraws Snowball when bred to Beals Red Lady produced Beals Powhatton and Lonzos Andy, One was Rednose the other Black.

Powhatton was bred to a daughter of Andy named Greggs Lady and this breeding produced a dog named Tarheels Black Lady.

Black Lady produced Martins lady who in turn produced Snakemans Shelby who was also a Rednose ( Sire being Howells Buckshot )

When Shakemans Pedro was Bred to Shelby they produced Fat Bills Runt, a chocolate rednose.

Now if you look closely behind several of the other dogs that figure predominantly in this ped in question you will find that their are alot of the same dogs behind the ones in the forefront as well as several other rednoses scattered throughout. I can't quote a percentage of Blacknose to rednose so lets say for arguments sake the percentage of rednoses is 5% Red 95% black, that being said the genetic chance of a rednose pup being produced would be 5 red out of 100 born (give or take).

Now if the dogs that carry the rednose gene were to be bred together that % would be increased, Agreed? It is not uncommon to see Rednose dogs pop up out of nowhere as a throwback to the dogs bred as far back as any can remember as the genetic influence is always underlying and waiting to be unlocked by the coupling of several genes. When this occurs you see lines change color seemingly overnight and if the breeder sees the other traits he is striving to produce along with the color he is more apt to keep that color in his breeding program thus increasing his chances of producing said color.

I cannot vouche for the breeding on the dog debated because I didnt breed the dog but I could never dicount the dog based on its nose alone, Maybe you all should take this debate furthar and debate the physical type that the dog shows, its other traits and its general nature in comparison with a dog of similiar breeding that has a black nose.

NGK

 

not the tightest but very good line with Nigerino, we got her down south to breed to Comino or a Tatis Rom Eli dog.
http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=162647

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=183747

 

Now this i really like!!

 

Nice post.

 

No not the tightest but looks good!

 

I like the Hall/Nigerino cross But then again thats what I run.....

 

Thanks Cliff,

I also find it interesting how after a logical post inviting those who created the debate to furthar the debate based on logical points that those involved will remain silent rather than back up their previous posts. A well known dogman once told me that a man that is unable to prove his words isn't worth his weight in dogshit, lol, good ol JC, sure miss him.

NGK

 

NGK i think it's funny that anyone can take a pedsonline ped as something logical & try to debate from that. i doubt you or anyone else has was there to make the breeding. what else is funny is there's a thread about bolio & how different strains produce dogs that have a certain look to them. have you had any nigerino dogs? well i have feed a few & crossed them a few time & they still keep the nigerino look to them (phenotype). crossed or not nigerino dogs have a district look to them. you think it's just the color that's suspect? the same fella had redboy dogs as well as eli dogs on the yard. and like a lot of folks they may not want to let out there recipe & i don't blame them. so you can take what a ped say as written in stone but i won't. "JC" may have dropped a few wittily lines on you. but he certainly couldn't drop any common sense on you.

 

a well known dogman once told me. believe what your eyes tell you. joe d told me that & he could care less about words. that's how he got the handle " hard joe" because it wasn't the words that was providing anything.

 

sorry about this boze this your post from the bolio thread.........."well he might be black because he was supposedly an eli dog mainly bullyson. i9 mean u ca not always go by color but look at theat dogs structure he screams eli"........ i doubt you can tell the difference from one eli family to the next. because you don't seem to be able to tell what nigerino dogs looks like. crossed or not. soooooooo it's possible for others to have questionable ped but not this dog? boze i been messing with eli dogs over 15 years from all different strains & seen more then enough to know what they look like. i got boyles stuff as well & know the difference between the eli/bolio stuff & the eli/bolio/hank/boomerang stuff. there's a certain look to them & folks that been around them know the difference.

 

I have also been breeding and feeding eli dogs going on 23 years and yes a few different strains and yes Nigerino bred shit as well, I had a brindle liver rednose pop up out of a heavy nigerino wildside dog about 15 years ago... Maybe you can tell me where that little gyp came from because I caught her on the way out of her momma and the rest were deep red blacknose just like the sire and dam.

Maybe you have inside information on this dog your disputing but up till now you have not disclosed that fact so... lets resume the debate knowing the fact that you have inside info. I would be quite interested in knowing how those dogs are bred as they seem to be getting the job done.

Thx, NGK

P.S. J.C. was a whitty man your correct about that but please keep your assumptions about common sense to yourself, let the dead R.I.P.

 

WS? the same WS that was messed up with that B-line nonsense? the same WS that was pedalling pups to every tom dick & harry with cash in hand? who the hell know how your pups was bred. but at least you know what bitch it was out of. we ain't talking about your dogs. we talking about the dog that was posted. don't be a hypocrisy you brought up JC not O'l bb so take your own advice bud. no inside information on my part. my information goes about as deep as your conviction about the dog being bred true & that ped posted as being true. the only other information is there was redboy blood as well as other stuff on the yard.

 

I would half to side on the half of old BB.I don't know about the dog in question and don't care. I do expect a nigerino dog to have a certain type,have a certain attitude,and look like Nigerino,Art,Cujo,Thunder, ect...It goes with what Limey said color,type, ect.. of a certain family.JMHO

 

Please reread my post I never said the dog was bred true and never said the dogs ped was correct as I myself did not breed the dog.

What I stated was that I could not discount a dogs ped based on its nose alone.

Out of curiosity what color was redboys nose?

How about the Colby dogs before them, what color were there noses?

NGK

 

NGK this thread is about nigrino dogs not redboy. so my last post to you about this is. 25 years in with these dogs & you believe redboy is off colby dogs LMFAO. in done with this thread because you know what a nigrino dog looks like or you don't. so believe what yall want BB

 

No Ben I don't beleive Redboys ped, lol, just putting that out there for you. It was a simple exercise in genetic understanding, what do you figure...Hemphil x Wilder or old Coplin x Steinburg?

 

i totally get wat ur sayin ben but they have been touting that red boy eli cross for a while and are not hiding it. they have been saying that they really like that cross and show it in there dogs so i just dont see them using one dog to hide it wen the recipe has already been given out by them. do i no how that dog is bred no do i really care if he is hung no because i dont plan on breeding to him but i can see where the color comes from no more no less i just see that is is very possible for that color to show up now if that dog was line bred cats cujo i would say no chance in hell but hard times has those genes and so does pistol so i am just saying it is possible