A World Perspective- Is our box getting Smaller? APBT,Tosas, Bully Kuttas, & Kangals.

Re: A World Perspective- Is our box getting Smaller? APBT,Tosas, Bully Kuttas, & Kangals.

lol kuttas being poor fighting dogs.

 

Re: A World Perspective- Is our box getting Smaller? APBT,Tosas, Bully Kuttas, & Kangals.

You can train a dog to do anything within it's physical abilities.

 

Re: A World Perspective- Is our box getting Smaller? APBT,Tosas, Bully Kuttas, & Kangals.

Sounds logical ...but it is not true ...physical abilities allone is not important...there are many dogs that are bigger and stronger than bulldogs...but no matter how hard you would train them...most little bulldogs are better fighters...even with poor training and I mean very friendly bulldogs You cant train a dog to fight or to fight better...you train him to give him wind and power.... But the fight is (or is not ) in the dog if you realy understand this you know enough.

 

Re: A World Perspective- Is our box getting Smaller? APBT,Tosas, Bully Kuttas, & Kangals.

So what the heck.....some say the very large tosas have won against some bulldogs....now you sayd the lightweight tosas have won against bulldogs...i believe it only if i see it only when i see it with my own brown-green eyes!!! All i have seen from tosas.....you know to slow...no wind and skill...cant get good holds...no real finisher...rarely good leg dogs...after 30 min no speed anymore..scratchin...whats that? AND so on....but the dog above looks good...i bet its a bulldogmix......(all only for historical purposes)

 

Re: A World Perspective- Is our box getting Smaller? APBT,Tosas, Bully Kuttas, & Kangals.

I can be believe. I'm refuse to believe the apbt is the only worthy match dog in history.

 

Re: A World Perspective- Is our box getting Smaller? APBT,Tosas, Bully Kuttas, & Kangals.

So what the heck.....some say the very large tosas have won against some bulldogs....now you sayd the lightweight tosas have won against bulldogs.
I don’t “say” I’ve seen it and witnessed it with my own eyes while over there thanks to Uncle Sam! Problem is most love to “talk” yet most doing all the talking have never even seen a performance breed Tosa Inu let alone seen one working.

i believe it only if i see it only when i see it with my own brown-green eyes!!!
Well nothing stopping you from going and witnessing it yourself! Japan</ST1:p is a great place to visit and the only first world country which it’s legal to match dogs.

All i have seen from tosas.....you know to slow...no wind and skill...cant get good holds...no real finisher...rarely good leg dogs...after 30 min no speed anymore..scratchin...whats that?
Typical replies and BS from individuals that have never seen the Tosa Ken work (be surprised if they seen an APBT work also). To have respect for the breed you first have to have respect for the rules! You can’t judge a breed based on Cajun rules when they compete and are breed for traditional Japanese rules (for the most part). Some may disagree with the traditional Japanese rules for matching but they are set that way to determine the better fighter while minimizing the physical harm to the dog. Under traditional rules-the APBT in not always superior to the Tosa and is fairly evenly matched from what I seen. There have been a few Ozeki and Yokozuna titled APBT’s in the smaller Tosa associations. But by large the Tosa holds it’s own and it makes no sense for the Japanese dogmen to abandon their lightweight (68lbs) Tosa’s in favor of the “large pits” to remain competitive.
The facts remain a good heavy weight Tosa is a significantly more powerful animal than your average 40-65lb APBT. Trouble is most if they’ve even seen a performance Tosa Ken it’s been via video and power doesn’t get conveyed accurately over it. Take my word for it two heavy weight Tosa’s going at it is a sight to behold! Tosa’s don’t have the wind or speed of an APBT but they are much more powerful. Most just don’t like to give a performance gladiator its props.

but the dog above looks good...i bet its a bulldogmix
Of course it does…review the breed and the mixes it’s made up of. Though the smaller weight class Tosa’s do have more pit influence than the large weight classes.<O:p</O:p

Attached is a picture of a APBT used in the creation of the early Tosa (Japanese caption says; "American Fighting Dog").

 

Re: A World Perspective- Is our box getting Smaller? APBT,Tosas, Bully Kuttas, & Kangals.

Here are a couple of more competitive lightweight Tosa Inu’s. You can see the Japanese dogmen breed their dogs much like Western dogmen-based solely on performance standards hence the various looks. To compare an obese conformation blob with a performance Tosa Ken is as insulting as comparing a game-bred APBT to a 100lb “pet bull”. Ok, enough of the Tosa talk for me.



Those serving currently and in Japan go see this beast (below) at the Kyokai tournament.

 

Re: A World Perspective- Is our box getting Smaller? APBT,Tosas, Bully Kuttas, & Kangals.

Believe in your breed. Period and end of sentance. I know by experiance with Tosas and these animals that you talk about. You ask about size change, its been done. Out crossing with "Show and Weight Pull" Castillo-Colby, Castillo-Jeep/Red Boy, and many others. Gameness is there. You just have to put the dog in the situation to bring the gameness out. Then you will answer your own question. Trust and have faith in your breed. Period and end of sentance.

 

Re: A World Perspective- Is our box getting Smaller? APBT,Tosas, Bully Kuttas, & Kangals.

what im tryin to say, Tosas are good workin dogs and the questions had aroase when i first came to japan to see if i would put my 45lb APBT against a 63lb Tosa-ken. The Tosa fought well, and to my surprise, was a great gladiator, but i then realized that the Tosa was giving the fight away due to loss of wind, and stamina. I will not knock the Tosa-ken. But i do believe in my breed. No questions asked.

 

Re: A World Perspective- Is our box getting Smaller? APBT,Tosas, Bully Kuttas, & Kangals.

E x a c t l y that is what i think.....tosas may be strong and awesome powerfull dogs....but if they are not able to finish the job in say 30 min....then the little smart fighter on the other site shows his colors....and HE has the wind , skill and HE WILL work until the job is done.....and one last question....why did japanes cross bulldogblood in there lines....if the tosa is better...well that makes no sense...or?

 

Re: A World Perspective- Is our box getting Smaller? APBT,Tosas, Bully Kuttas, & Kangals.

Do you have first hand experience with Castillo/RBJ or the like? I've seen castillo dogs go the extra mile, but never truly matched. They are down from OFRN, and imagine that a cross back to deep game stuff would be successful.

 

Re: A World Perspective- Is our box getting Smaller? APBT,Tosas, Bully Kuttas, & Kangals.

that is a wonderfull question. I dont have all the answers and i dont think anyone in the world dose. Thanks for the backing. I will continue to represent the APBT to the fullest here in Japan as long as I live. Like I said. Im game in my dogs and heart, and my gameness can not be measured when it comes to my breed because there is no scale large enough to measure it. I fight for them and they fight for me. And there is more love for them then my wife LOL. at least thats what she says. I say if there is any dog that is better than an APBT then let them come see me, and i will put myself in the pit and fight. Tosa-kens are not a threat.

 

Re: A World Perspective- Is our box getting Smaller? APBT,Tosas, Bully Kuttas, & Kangals.

I have the outcross. And the lines are very deep in the game. What no body knows or wants to admit is that Castillo is all originally game and the OFRN was and is a very respectable line. I curently have 2 back home that are of the RBJ/Castillo line and they are some of the best in my yard.

 

Re: A World Perspective- Is our box getting Smaller? APBT,Tosas, Bully Kuttas, & Kangals.

Tosas are good workin dogs and the questions had aroase when i first came to japan to see if i would put my 45lb APBT against a 63lb Tosa-ken.
What sanctioned organization did you compete in? I find it odd you state you’ve competed with the whole breed. Much like in the states-backyard rolls don’t count for crap! Kind of strange you state your dog pushed 18 lbs uphill and won, either you’re lying or you went into a crap dog. Heck Zebo was only a few pounds lighter than your dog and going uphill 3lbs was almost too much for him to overcome.

but if they are not able to finish the job in say 30 min....then the little smart fighter on the other site shows his colors
Funny how individuals (that never seen a Tosa) attempt to discredit the Tosa Ken yet will praise APBT bloodlines breed for barnstorming and mouth-not gameness.

why did japanes cross bulldogblood in there lines....if the tosa is better
I’d guess the same reason they cross Pointers, Great Danes, Mastiffs, St. Bernard’s, etc.-called creating a breed! The above statement shows you knowledge-severely lacking!

say if there is any dog that is better than an APBT then let them come see me, and i will put myself in the pit and fight. Tosa-kens are not a threat.
Then why not meet compete with your dog in sanctioned events? You’re in and it’s legal and numerous clubs that you can compete with-even well established APBT only ones that go by the Cajun rules. You talk about how you’ve got such a great dog-stop the talking and start SHOWING! Just remember in <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com /><st1:country-region w:st=Japan </ST1 /><st1:country-region w:st=<ST1:pJapan</ST1:p</st1:country-region> it take 6 wins to obtain the title “Grand Champion”. They are still excepting entries to some of the upcoming events listed above.

 

Re: A World Perspective- Is our box getting Smaller? APBT,Tosas, Bully Kuttas, & Kangals.

Maybe the old school dogs went that long but not now. You would be hard pressed to find a match last longer than 30 minutes now. People are breeding for fast lane dogs now and those matches never go more than an hour. Maybe the old school dogs could do it but that just isn't the case now. Don't emblish it b/c it's just not the truth anymore.

 

Re: A World Perspective- Is our box getting Smaller? APBT,Tosas, Bully Kuttas, & Kangals.

what dogs are you messin with??? i consistantly see dogs going 1:15-1:45

 

Re: A World Perspective- Is our box getting Smaller? APBT,Tosas, Bully Kuttas, & Kangals.

I unfortunately have yet to see any Tolsas, but I do have to say that ever since I begin looking into the breed I have been impressed. I also think that you can tell a bit about a breed by it's origin. For example I can almost garauntee that any German breed is an amazing and well thought-out mixture of canines because Germans are hard-core dog people. American breeds are also wonderful and Canadians have the best horses (US is 2nd in that dept. in my opinion) Japan breeding is also something taken very seriously, they also are a country were honor and strength is somthing not taken lightly, they very much enjoy seeing examples of this and they also have a great history of producing some of the most awsome breeds we know today, so simply knowing these things and seeing pictures, reading what I have read about the Tosa Inu, I really don't think you guys are giving credit where credit is due.

Good job Texasbulldogs for trying to keep these guys informed on this great breed.

PS seriously though, I still want to see proof that a 285lb tosa exists! I know one of you read it on a forum which could have been written by anyone... it's BS

 

Re: A World Perspective- Is our box getting Smaller? APBT,Tosas, Bully Kuttas, & Kangals.

I just have a quick question....is Tosa Inu the same as a Tosa Ken ?

 

Re: A World Perspective- Is our box getting Smaller? APBT,Tosas, Bully Kuttas, & Kangals.

I just have a quick question....is Tosa Inu the same as a Tosa Ken ?
“Ken” (the breed) – “Inu” (dog)
<O:p</O:p
Since I've posted some lightweights figured I'd show some middle and heavyweights.

This is T's Kairyu (middleweight)


Heavyweights

One more heavyweight (waiting for opponent to enter)

 

Re: A World Perspective- Is our box getting Smaller? APBT,Tosas, Bully Kuttas, & Kangals.

Very informative posts as always Texasbulldogs. Thanks for all the info!