Strength vs Endurance vs Agility vs Speed

I tried to participate and even took the thread off type like most conversations. I just get bored with the name calling and such.

I define gameness simply as the 'willingness to continue'. Without the will to continue none of the other attributes really matter.

Mouth come is first because one of the objects is to get in and get out in as little a time as possible. Most people who make lists that have mouth down around 3-4-5 change their minds when they see one that can really shut it down. Most multiple winning dogs can really shut it down. It is hard enough to go 2+ hours with one of these dogs but to do it multiple times does not happen on the regular.

Ca. Jack did a study once where he tallied the times of several hundred reported matches from various reputable magazines. Both new and old. The average show over time is right around 45-50 minutes. I found it interesting enough that I pulled out some old stuff and did the math myself and he was spot on. I think my result was :47 and I forget his exact number but it was within a minute or so of mine.

At some point every attribute and all its definitions will be the most important because one of those attributes will be the strength of the opponent. That strength will have to be matched or countered with one of the other attributes in order to get to the W and even more so to get to multiple W's.

Looking at the match reports to get the overall average the shortest times were from dogs that were know to be able to really bite or the other was an absolute rank cur. Freak mouthed dogs are not the regular but rank curs seldom make it show night. 5-7-8 minutes and hang it up normally show themselves much earlier. This means the hard mouth dog is ending these shows in a minimal amount of minutes.

Conditioning/the keep then becomes the key factor in all of the attributes. The keep should improve upon a trait/attribute but often, and more times than most would like to say, the keep is what ruins the dog.

Most of these dogs who are kept lean and fit and healthy can do 45-50 minutes of hard work right off the chain. After a 6-8 week keep a large percentage (a higher number than should be expected) blow hot in 12-14 minutes. Mostly due to water content, but that is another topic altogether.

No one leaves home with having a game dog as their calling card or their basis for going to the ATM machine and withdrawing two handfuls of cash. No one leaves home with the plan to outlast the other. Checking for gameness or having a pretty good feeling about gameness is for 'in case it goes that long' and no one makes the initial bet because they think they can 'out game' another.

Game has to be a given and an automatic. More often than not, mouth is what gets you in and gets you out in the least amount of time. From there the other attributes can bounce around at 2-3-4-5 and each of them will be the most important at some time between 'release' and the :45-:50 minute mark.

S

 

No doubts. Everyone has a ranking system and a value system. And mine is no more right nor wrong than any other's. I enjoy reading all of them.

At some point the winning dog simply has to be better than the other in one or two or three of the things ranked/valued.

I cut my teeth on the old Molly Bee blood/Bullet/Big Boy/Zebo/Rufus blood from way back. I won't say all of them could really, really bite but I will say a person would have to go out of their way to find one that could not. There was rule of thumb that the harder they bit the more likely they would quit. The ones that were game did not bite as hard as their cur family member. The percentages were low.

The next step was the type of keep put on those dogs. The dogs were worked to start fast, go hard and be relentless non stop for :50-:55 minutes. (funny how that concept from 40 years ago is about the same number of minutes calculated by Jack). The general rule I learned from way back then was to put something on the other for :50 minutes where it didn't matter if he was game or talented or skilled or anything.

Those guys back then had low percentage game dogs but were high percentage match winners and the mouth those families generally brought was the separation.

I am sure removing curs helped the game dog percentages but what perpetuated the low percentages was breeding the winners based on winning. Some of those dogs bit so hard and were kept so well the deep down cur was hidden. The best example was Molly Bee herself. I say she is the greatest match dog of all time. She won eight and nothing ever scratched back to her. She bit things down but when she was bitten she cur snapped. But after one has planted three or four and on the road to planting three or four more, some things are over looked. No one ever really knew if she was a game dog or not.

Mr. Edwards, Bass and Hargrove never left home with Molly Bee planning to out last anyone.

Since I got sick dates and times and years sort of blend together. I try to pause and think so what I put down is truthful but sometimes I get those things confused (and then I wake up at 2AM with absolutely useless shit in my brain and it is as clear as a bell, go figure). I believe it was the late 80's, I am thinking it was maybe '88-'89.

Anyway, we went to Georgia and crossed paths with a DeLoach bred dog with him sitting pit side.

They didn't leave home with 'deep water' on their mind, but if they did, their dog did not get that memo.

S

 

I can sit in the living room with dishes piled in the sink, the floor needs vacuuming and the yard needs mowed. None of the affects me in the least. I have 8-10-12 pairs of cargo type shorts, maybe 40 white cotton T-shirts by Jockey and a pair of Merril hiking boots. Again, none of that really matters to me nor do I bother what other people think. No OCD here at all.

With the dogs I am (used to be) damn near sociopathic with details. I believer everything matters at some point. How a dog is raised and fed and worked and watered and medicated factors in winning matches.

The keep weeks before the show every minute of every day leading up to it absolutely matters.

When the show starts every skill and every ability and everything the dog did or did not bring with him matters.

I am not sure I have ever seen any one dimensional dog (you pick the trait) do well for long. At some point the dog is going to have to sprint like a greyhound, pull like a weightpuller and do both of those for distance/time like a sled dog. If your dog is not prepped to handle certain things those certain things will be the reason you fork over your cash.

I am selfish and greedy. I want my dogs to have all the traits/attributes everyone has listed. I want them to excel in each and every one.

S

 

One of the first 'old men' I met in the dogs was a guy named Oscar. He was in his 70's when I was kid in the 70's. He was more into the birds but dabbled in the dogs.

He use to point at one and say, "if he can bite and breathe you can win anywhere against anyone".

Old folks know some shit.

S