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Chasing Dead Dogs

Discussion in 'Breeder Discussion' started by Naustroms, Feb 3, 2010.

  1. 305APBT

    305APBT Big Dog

  2. corvettedex

    corvettedex CH Dog Premium Member

    Bump this Old Tread to see how the Game Dog members feel...
     
  3. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    It will sell a lot of puppies but the percentages of good dogs will fade.

    Mostly because the papers get to be more important than the dog being bred.

    S
     
    david63, corvettedex and ngamla like this.
  4. corvettedex

    corvettedex CH Dog Premium Member

    Yes Sir, I have to think that any time I see a certain Bulldogs of Renowned and on the ped it says x120 of what have you ! Things that make you go hum...
     
  5. corvettedex

    corvettedex CH Dog Premium Member

    Since scientists have been able to recreate let say
    ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [494624] :: EL TITERE (8XW) POR---SDJ'S DOG OF THE
    http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=494624 would he really be the same Bulldog ? Better yet I feel like he wouldn't be based on different ownership perhaps, or even under the same ownership. This is the definition of not Chasing Dead Dogs, but chasing Alive ones.. How many times have some of us read that a certain breeder might say "This is a virtually a genetic clone of , What have you....
     
    david63 likes this.
  6. GK1

    GK1 Big Dog

    Look I’m no breeder...and understanding genetics - dominant/recessive traits and the impact of 4th, 5th, 6th and beyond generations on a present dog cannot be chalked up to simple math, let alone such shortsighted breeding concepts of breeding ‘great to great will = great’. But my understanding is the re-creation of dead dogs through frozen sperm, cloning, inbreeding etc. does not really advance the breed.
     
    david63 and corvettedex like this.
  7. I have a yard full of dogs based on those dead ones. One directly off Stonewall( welped in 82, died in 91) and a couple off DRKs Doc Holiday (died in 12?). Gus/ white Diamondback has Honeybunch 2x in his 3rd.anything off him it shows up in 4. Dead dogs relevant in a ped.

    Now everything being bred is worthy of it. How I value that is my business. It's not open for discussion. Pic is of an ad in a 82 issue of the Gazette, it's also our dog Gus's topside
     
    david63 likes this.
  8. yes it can to a certain point
    there basiccly a few programs out there

    1) COI
    2) DNA analysis on a determined amount of traits
    3) ancestor loss analysis
     
    Stone Shark likes this.
  9. GK1

    GK1 Big Dog

    Some stud dogs are prepotent to the point they pass their dominant traits 4-5-6 generations forward. They also pass their recessive ones. Traits like missing teeth, bad hips, monorchids and other health issues, for example.

    Not saying the very best dogs resurrected from the past still wouldn’t be great specimens today. But shouldn’t breeders attempt to improve the breed by eliminating those negative traits through line breeding, dovetailing etc.. via the introduction of different lines?
     
    david63 likes this.
  10. ohav4

    ohav4 Big Dog

    When you really get into this game you start to realize that the man behind the dog is just as important as how the hound is bred. The old “Nature vs Nurture” debate. They are both equally important. A well bred hound + a good dogman= higher percentage of success. I said that to say chasing dead dogs is pointless if you yourself are not a good dogman and don’t nurture your hounds on your yard in the right environment for success. Just my 2cents
     
  11. CajunBoulette

    CajunBoulette CH Dog

    You can chase dead dogs all you want, but IMO if you're trying to reproduce something from a prior generation you're breeding ass backwards. When I'm breeding dogs I want each generation to progress and become better. That being said I geuss it's all about what dog your chasing, but if said dog was just a monster freak of nature the chances of reproducing it are pretty slim. What's up all you old time guys that's been here, what's up yo the new. Just dropping back in, been a helluva ride last few years! My baby girl is doing wonderful..... Unfortunately she looks just like me
     

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  12. budgee

    budgee Pup

    Hey guys
    Here's my view.
    It's not so much chasing the dead dog as much as chasing the formula that makes dogs like the dead.
    It's a farming/breesi
     
  13. budgee

    budgee Pup

    Meant to say a farming/breeding principle.
    Hence for me it's important to stay within the lines/families that produce dogs with traits you like.
    It's also my experience that a dogman with limited yard space won't have the patience to stick with the above principle.
    Red + white = pink, provided you always mix red + white, not scarlet red or pearl white.
    There's always going to be curs and game ones, but I know that the bad ass will always be there too, provided I don't change the formula.
     
  14. budgee

    budgee Pup

    You improve on each generation by using Bad Ass females only.
    You only get Bad Ass Females if you started with a family/line of dogs that had Bad Ass Females in it, up close (2nd, 3rd Gen)
     
  15. F.W.K.

    F.W.K. CH Dog

    If you like chasing dead dogs then you must store your dogs sperm in the freezer.
    A good female is half the work done isn't?
    Best x Best don't settle for less and time will tell the rest.
    Take Care
     
    david63 and patjr like this.
  16. kdue

    kdue Big Dog

    why not just clone the dead dog?
     
  17. F.W.K.

    F.W.K. CH Dog

    Like Dolly the sheep, now I am curious who will get the 1st cloned APBT, LOL.
     
    Soze the killer likes this.
  18. CockneyRebel

    CockneyRebel Big Dog

    If your aim is just to resurrect the dogs of the past then you shouldn't be breeding IMO.

    Surely the aim of the game must be to try and improve stock?
     
    F.W.K. and palooka like this.
  19. Has a dog been cloned yet???
    im not sure how authentic this is but according to D.Link..in his totally bizare and hugely inacurate book 'pitbull garden'
    thd Koreane goverment been doing it for years.aparently they started of with a Afgan hound called 'snuppy'in 2005.
    apaerntly according to link a screen writer called McKinney from the USA.had her pitbull what saved her life when she was atacked by a large dog leaving Mikinny to have one of her hands amputed.sucssefully cloned by the Koreans..
    aparently it costs around 100 000 dollas each.
     
    david63 and F.W.K. like this.
  20. AGK

    AGK Super duper pooper scooper Administrator

    Many dogs have been cloned. You've been able to clone them since 2008.
    You can have your dog cloned for about $50,000 these days. However, it will only be the same in appearance. The dog will not be the same mentally as the dog it was cloned from so I don't really see the purpose of doing it other than sentimental reasons. If you cloned Mayday, you'll get a dog that looks like him but that don't mean it wont be a rank cur. It don't work that way. It wouldn't be the same dog in behavior.
     

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