Shy Dogs

I've had about six dogs down from tom garners blood and they've all been people shy,Has any of you other breeders had experience with Eli/Frisco dogs being people shy?

 

The evolution theory of breeding and selling thousands of pups from frisco who had the same trait, shouldnt suprise you... I dont think Tom was thinking of selling outgoing dogs when he linebred the shit out of frisco and focused on him only it seems as frisco dominates the pedigree..
In the eighties when he offered spike and chinaman offspring the family was more complete in my opinon,,, linebreeding on frisco seemed to be the faith with this type results... most people whon notice this from garner note its mostly the heavier frisco dogs,,, but the lack of time to hand raise the pups, parents and grandparents has shown it comes with alot of puppy mills... after so many generations, they eventually detatch themselves from people, which seems to be taking a huge step backwards for the breeders and for the canines that come from these practices regaurdless of breed... If I were gonna get from the hill, get a cross with frisco not dominating the pedigree but a meer cornerstone at most...
We see how many generations it took tom to do this, I wonder how many it would take to fix it...

 

...not being hand raised ? Remember his says (or at least use to) that each and every pup was lovingly interacted with by the Garner kids lol...next your going to try and tell us Werther's are not made in some old world country in a loving Mom n Pop style house.

EP hit the nail on the head with what he wrote though. My main experience with the Garner dogs were with his Earl/Earl Jr line and that of Hickson and not one dog was a bit people shy but as you know they have little to no Frisco. I have also had a couple of the more heavily bred Frisco dogs and only had one that was very shy and she was pretty tight. The others were for lack of a better word out crossed with some of his 'other' lines so there was enough of a balance.

When I look at Toms site and see the litters I always think that most would only make good brood stock and need to be out crossed to get a more fastlane dog...jmo though.

 

My Garner bred female was shy for the first 24hrs but came around after that and loves people showing no signs of being shy. That said others have expressed similar situations as yours have. Did you choose your dogs or where they shipped out to you? When I chose her i picked the one that was the most outgoing from what was left in the litter.

Drove from NC to FL with her at 8weeks and no problems she was quiet the whole way with no problems.

 

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This little female shows the very trait of being people shy. She herself didn't come from Garner, it seems she pulled from the bottom side of the pedigree as it dominates. It's the one thing I hate the most about her. At the same time I don't believe she was given the proper attention coming up.

 

My dogs have been hand pick for the most part but when not they were bought from other kennels who use garner blood.

 

i always heard frisco was incredibly shy. and chinaman wasn't the best with people i think he was skittish.

 

I have not seen House playboy but have stood over Old Shuck, Both his parents Black foot & also her mother & none were shy.
Have simuler blood & dogs in pedigrees & seen them in person .
If you like the dogs performance you can still breed out that trait.
I did with same trait in Hicks Money thru line breeding .
Inbred full would only intensify the trait but line breeding with a another using a different bottom should work no problem. As long as she isn't the only female you have you should be good. I would recommend crossing her -2-3 different males, breed 1/2 brother sis from those breeding & pups. rand children & grt grnd , should be a whole lot better.
You can still use dogs like that but not 100% of that blood.
En

 

Sounds good Ziggy... if I linebreed on her using 2 different males and bred the 1/2 siblings I'm thinking I would still be bring that trait up....even tho I'm adding new blood. I like her and I do believe it's coming from the bottom. I'm hoping the shyness was environmental so to speak.....I'm in no rush to breed her so I will be a little more patient.

Performance or not I hate that trait.....as It could jump out at anytime....I can deal with everthing
else about her for now.
She's super fast, strong and just naturally long winded.....but don't like crowds.....ugh

 

I believe if you breed the dog and raise the pups right you can get rid of that trait

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That what I'm hoping Cajun.....I would love that.

 

Like others I've heard a lot about shy frisco pups, but have read much about frisco bred ch's that are very outgoing, some extremely so. This also continues one generation down, many examples of outgoing garner bred dogs. How many of frisco champs were shy like himself? The ones I immediately think of were not. Not to say that these shy pups are culls or that they shouldn't be bred, but is it possible that frisco isn't consistently passing this trait down to his best offspring?. And bc of this fact, those that are ppl friendly and bred are helping to correct this issue?

 

IMO there have been some very long winded answers here and a key phrase that pops up a lot is ''I heard''... fuck I heard.

Shyness is a trait that is present in a lot of tight Frisco dogs and in MY EXPERIENCE the females tend to be more so. I agree with CB somewhat in that if you put the time in and you really put the effort in you can for the most part get rid of the trait.

People really need to stop saying I heard in regard to things like traits and characteristics. Simple. If you do not have first hand experience with the line in question. I would first forum your own view and base it on your own experiences, re-read EP's and CB's and this one, sums it up I think.

 

Just a newb trying to find the truth, but if you're going to hold me to that standard id ask you do the same for others. EP, you have direct experience with frisco shyness, or inbred frisco dogs? I think your theoretical points are well taken, but I was hoping someone could speak about actual dogs off frisco.

 

lol...man EP is a dogman and like I told you through PM I would agree with his post period. Are you not the same newb who told me through PM that you felt your dog was a good one for the show world because of how he rough houses in your home lmao ??? Did you also not just mention through PM that it was clear no one here knew what they were talking about and you would just ask Tom ???

Man you just a pet bull owner...simple as that. You may in fact breed your pup and so on and so forth like every other chump who bough a dog from Garner and wants to make a quick buck and hopefully the pup gets in the hands of a true dogman so you can try n make a name for yourself lol...not gonna happen because true dogman men do not go to hoobly to get their dogs.

Write back with all the big words you want but you know what you have said to me through PM and what I have said to you. Just like that punk kid your just another newb that cant be taught anything he hasnt read.

 

My personal opinion I think shy dogs come from certain breeders not certain lines. I've never had a Frisco dog. But I've had a shy dog. Only dog I've ever had that I'd call shy was a redboy/jocko/chinaman bitch and see imo was shy because from time she was whelped till time I picked her up at eight weeks she'd been with her dam and littermates in a pen the whole time. She was fine with me but she never fully trusted any one but me and my granddad but that was because I've never been the type to have alot of people around my dogs. I othink that if you take a litter of young pups and introduce them to people at a young age they should be fine. I would think that trait would be more learned than passed

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Also dogs ain't stupid, they know that every time someone shows up a pup disappears. I've had some that had made their mind up they wanted to stay and wouldn't come out when somebody was there to pick one out.

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I will agree with thats your personal opinion. Mine is a lot of the heavy Frisco dogs carry this trait, again some may improve with proper 'time in' and other will remain so.

 

Like I said I've only had one and it wasn't a Frisco dog. I would say it's learned but I could see how it could become a trait if done a few generations and none those generations have the time put in to change it.

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I think that to a certain degree you do get out what you put in...that said...you can only get out whats within the dog itself in terms of its potential in any regard. Some dogs are gonna be shy no matter what, just as some are gonna be prone to man biting no matter what.