Opinions on SBT/APBT

For those of you who are fans of the SBT, please say why you would choose a SBT over an APBT. Is it just tradition? Are there specific qualities you prefer? I have a soft spot for the SBT and I'm not sure why. Maybe it's because if you can find one that can hang with an APBT you've got a real special animal.

 

Let´s face it. If we want to have what objectively are the absolute best dogs out there, most would have to be forced to shot of their entire yard and start all over! Still it would perhaps not be possible to acquire the absolute best specimens of today. And even if you got the absolute best dog, perhaps they are not the absolute best dogs in your hands!

So most out there settle for dogs they like and appreciate and that live up to their standards! Dogs that work out for them! There are many reasons people prefer to keep Staffs instead of the APBT. One reason that I like the Staffs is that I do not feel that people look at me like I am some sort of gangster any time I walk the dogs! In my 20s I perhaps liked the feeling walking around with a massive APBT that caused a lot of attention, but I am far from 20 these days and appreciate my anonymity a bit more…

 

Why not have a small APBT ,they do come in all sizes... plenty of small ones they same size as SBT...you don't have to buy some 50-60 lbs dog

 

a little 27 pound apbt bitch i had, no one would bat an eyelid at her.

 

I would the day I find an APBT line that constantly throws dogs in the range of 22-25 pounds, and that proves superior to my Staffs…

 

Rocks, are your staffs in that weight range ?

 

And is there a SBT line that throw 22-25 lbs dogs constantly ? that is very small even for SBTs..its below the show/ kc standard...

 

I have owned both,and not found noconsistency in Eather I had bitch out of sylus 26lb but the others was in the 30,s and a dog out of sandy who was 31-33 but the rest of the litter was hi 30,s you can breed two 30 lb dogs and still get heaver dogs because of there ancestors behind them,Brian plumber got right with his strain of terriers but it took him years.

 

take everything Plummer said with a large pinch of salt Lamp, he never used the bull he say he did and it certainly had nothing to do with jimmy boots or dotty patch.your going to get weigh variations in any performance bred breed.

 

The last couple of years I feel our Staffs have improved, at this time we do not own a single Staff above 30 pounds. Most are even smaller than that. However I am sure the size would increase if we started to outcross. Some years ago a few dogs out of crossed breeding’s ended up around 45, but with Staffs in that size one could just as well get an APBT.

 

Just wondering why you would want them so small..... I seen a SBT lately ,,,a good one,,, called BUSTER... to me he was very typical SBT in every way,,, he weighed 35lbs ,,,I don't think 25 lbs is typical..its way below the average ....

 

35 is the biggest size I ever want a male Staff to be, that is a good size. My line is perhaps a bit smaller than ideal, but they are perfect in conformation so I am happy. When the Staffs become bigger than 35 lbs, their getting above their natural size where they are at their best.

On the opposite side I have not observed them losing anything at the lower weights, on the contrary they seem even better. So for me that is preferred. But as I mentioned, we will need to outcross again soon enough and perhaps the size will increase then.

 

What height were these tiny Staffordshire and do you have any pictures please mate" Perry

 

Nice, i never had a staff over 38 lbs, most of them are around the 35 lbs.
Sometimes i see those 45 lbs+ staffs and i just schake my head.
For my personal taste, just to big and i like the fast action you get from those little ones.
When chloe (28 lbs) play fight with her halfbrother who's a solid 50 pounder, she's just al over him, before he can turn around she already got a hold on another leg.
So funny to see.

 

But your not talking about a 35lb staff...your talking about breeding for dogs over 10lb lighter!...a preferd size of 22lb-25lb...now i can only go by your own words...it wernt to long ago on here you was boasting and bragging about your forthcoming litter being 3/4 psycho bred...you proudly posted the pedigree of the perspective litter and as i remember it the Stud dog was a double bred 'Ricky' dog...now im struggling to see the wisdom in someone who states they prefer staffords to be 22-25lb...breeding to a dog thats double bred on a 38lb dog!...from a line that more often than not throws dogs well over your prefered 25 pounders!!...some of you on these forums sound a bit confused!...on one hand talking of workers from working lines and on the other hand talking of breeding for good comfirmation and to a freakishly small standard....heres a question for you boys...if you had of been offered the CH psycho dog would you have turned him down and dismissed the dog as being to big...weighing in at 40lb fit and upto 48lb out of condition...and on seeing psycho would 'joe black' of given the dog a"shake of his head"...?

 

Well put mixed grill. Rudy 45lb. Quick as lightning.

 

all this talk about getting weights right breeding for certain weights and height is what is wrong with the staff men of today its like breeding for colour a lot of people on here could put in for a job with the kc and help them ruin more breeds to breed for conformation weight and height and then get what they want and change it again as soon as the rest of the sheep want to make changes. ability,heart,game,health and a devotion to man and child is what I want in a Stafford a Stafford willing to do any task set and to have the tools to do it with no thoughts of ohhh hes 2 pound over or 2 inches over what I like or the type I want oh wouldn't use that dog as I like blue it looks nice.todays show staffords are heading the way of the English bulldog with exaggerations to suit shows instead of a dog bred for purpose.fit is fit and have seen many a big dog move as good or better than a small one.i would use small,big,undershot or pricked ears as long as it does what a staff should do with all the traits that a good Stafford should have.Ontherocks why do you need to outcross if your happy with your size? and why is it a staffords natural weight so if a Stafford line throws dogs in around 40 pound or bigger that is unnatural? as last time I knew Stafford show standard is 28-38lb but as any dog will be judged on conformation in a show a dog say 40 pound or slightly bigger but to the standard is perfect with perfect movement and balance would u or should a judge take the prize away from that dog for being slightly over.

 

The sbt i was refering to are sometime 48lbs and bigger in decent conditioned and for my personal taste that's just to big with in the sbt.
What wrong with having a personal choice in what i would like to see in a dog i have bred my self ?.
Absolutly nothing, now i also said i never had a staf over 38lbs and most are around the 35lbs, that's more then enough fair weight on a dog who's out of a pretty heavy linebreeding.
My bitch of 28lbs is the smallest of the litter and the smallest dog i ever had, did you hear me saying that al my dogs are like that ?
Nope.
Most of my dog wil be around the 35/38lbs.
Now, that little bitch i have wil be bred to her cousin, who's sire is out of geronimo, so jack and ricky behind that but i don't expect that litter to be that big in weight because of the line/inbreeding % behind that.
Her sister who's 37lbs wil be bred in the future to a red strain dog so i wil have some outcross blood, those dogs wil be bigger then the litter i intend to breed with my own little bitch.
It's a wel know fact that if you do heavy line or inbreeding that the dogs wil drop weight and if you outcross it you wil have the hybrid vigour that wil bring the weight back up.
Why would it be different then with in the sbt's ?
Ch marvin who's a son of psycho was what 29/30lbs in conditioned weight, so let's say 38lbs chainweight.
Moonshine 36lbs conditioned, Nogg's blue 34lbs conditioned, Ringo's ruby 34 lbs conditioned, just a few offspring directly of psycho who were smaller then the sire.
So what's your point mixed grill ?

 

The size of Ricky is not relevant to my breeding program, since the dogs I keep down from him is not in that size range. It is called selective breeding; if you see my previous posts you will see that I mentioned that I had dogs that big in the past. But after breeding the blood for a decade there would be strange if we would not have been able to have an impact on our blood. We have learned lots and know how to breed to get what we want.

Anyone genuinely interested in working dogs do know that conformation is very important. If you do not see that, you are confused. Any old timer would tell you the importance of conformation. Any old timer I have spoken to have told me what conformation he prefers in his dogs and why.

I do not see the relevance of your question about turning Psycho down. But for the sake of it, the dog has been dead for almost 30 years- if someone would need to go back 30 years in the breeding program it would prove that nothing has improved.

 

Anyone genuinely interested in workers breed first and foremost for healthy workers...regardless of size or comfirmation...the basic simple principles of Line breeding is to lock in those desired physical and mental traits...i knew you couldnt answer my simple question as your posts make little real sense...if you cant see the importance of the influance of the foundation of a line then your not half as clever as you think you are...i give you a recent example...look at the ped posted by 'Pockets' for his pup...look from Psycho to Max to Jocko to Rocky my dear to Gallaghers Troy...a good example of line breeding...i still can not see the wisdom in you breeding to a dog double bred on a 38lb dog...to do what?...cull all those that dont fit your strict 22-25lb standard?!...talk about trying to bash a square peg into a round hole!...its sad to see those that come on these forums and talk about breeding a line...and have little idea of what they are really doing...reading the posts on this thread by todays so called breeders it plain to see why the Stafford is in such a bad shape