Flame Tree's Geronimo Hoss DNA-P VIP @ 6 month's

bullydogla · Aug 31, 2010

I'll take him.

norcalreds.com · Aug 31, 2010

benthere said: ↑

real working dogs?? norcal you got alot to learn.
hoss is a very pretty dog. he looks like he's a beloved pet.
he's bred from generations of dogs bred to be nothing more than red.
bill pritts himself would be laughing at you guys that think the ofrn's are real bulldogs.
Click to expand...

Benthere... I know that alot of OFRNs are not match quality dogs and I didn't make any claim or indication that Hoss was! If you think I got a lot to learn... call your buddy IM. I asked him if he was gonna be busy in late October but he kindly explained his situation. Now if you are not busy... then send me a PM with your number and we can talk like men and not go back and forth like a bunch of these bitches do here on the board! If I don't get a PM and see you trying to stir up a bitch made back and forth debate about who is a real dogman and that OFRNs aren't real working dogs then I'll take that as you being one of these bitches that like to go back and forth. If the shoe fits... where it!

benthere · Aug 31, 2010

norcalreds.com said: ↑

Benthere... I know that alot of OFRNs are not match quality dogs and I didn't make any claim or indication that Hoss was! If you think I got a lot to learn... call your buddy IM. I asked him if he was gonna be busy in late October but he kindly explained his situation. Now if you are not busy... then send me a PM with your number and we can talk like men and not go back and forth like a bunch of these bitches do here on the board! If I don't get a PM and see you trying to stir up a bitch made back and forth debate about who is a real dogman and that OFRNs aren't real working dogs then I'll take that as you being one of these bitches that like to go back and forth. If the shoe fits... where it!
Click to expand...

busy in late october???
what are you trying to do, set me up to be busted?
I don't commit felonies or any crime with my dogs, and I sure as hell would not even talk about committing any crime with a punk that calls people out on the internet. so don't look for that PM from me anytime soon.

redheat · Aug 31, 2010

I have never Claimed Hoss to be "GAME" ...But he is one hell of a dog!!! and GOOD LOOKING also... How GAME are you crazyhorsey?

deathgrip · Sep 2, 2010

Thats a FINE looking dog there, dont let NO ONE TELL YOU ANY DIFFERENT!!! Looks like we got a TARZAN chest beater on this thread, that likes to talk shit!

CrazyHorse · Sep 3, 2010

redheat said: ↑

I have never Claimed Hoss to be "GAME" ...But he is one hell of a dog!!! and GOOD LOOKING also... How GAME are you crazyhorsey?
Click to expand...

Red Heat did you ask if I was Game?...ABSOLUTELY! As a matter of fact I'm more game than Beulah that the top side of you pet is linebred off of! I also have more FIRE than Hoss who was cold! Isn't the top side of your pet also linebred Hoss?

I would hope to think I have more ability than Apache who wasn't worth fish guts! Wasnt the cur Buelah bred to Apache to produce cold Hoss? Isn't the bottom side of your pet linebred and inbred off Apache also?

I would aslo pray that I had more abilty than the game no talent no ability plug Heck!

Does that answer your question Red Heat?...LMAO!

redheat · Sep 7, 2010

Your not GAME!!! Your a coward, I know it for a fact you would not talk this mess to my face, standing toe to toe!!! Come talk your shit toe to toe, you coward.

deathgrip · Sep 7, 2010

You dont have to worry about that ALL Ol'' julieous Almands wants to do is talk shit from the safety of his KEYBOARD AND MOUSE. I have seen many people call him out and try to get him to come out in public and face them, after he talked shit to them, and he WOULD NOT... HE IS JUST JEALOUS OF YOU AND YOUR DOG. BECAUSE HE CLAIMS TO HAVE THE PUREST OFRN IN THE WORLD, BUT HE GETS CHOCOLATE and WHITE, along with his red PUPS WHEN HE BREEDS THESE PURE DOGS???? O'ya Iron Mike said Duster was FRAIL...

deathgrip · Sep 7, 2010

Herb on Tue Aug 03, 2010 4:20 pm
+

-

Sun City,
I do not feel that the purpose of IM’s Hemphill comments were intended for only giving a side by side comparison of his traditional Iron Line blood, to the Hemphill blood of that era. In fact, if you go to the House of Bull message board, you will see that IM was actually responding to other people, who were extolling the greatness of present day Hemphill blood (namely an A-1 Idiot by the name of Fig Tree John), giving them the benefit of his experience with that line. The intent of his posts were to share information about some key dogs that show up in the straight Hemphill peds, along with sharing the results when he evaluated the offspring of his Hemphill cross. The inevitable comparison of his traditional Iron Line blood, to the Hemphill blood was given to further explain why he didn’t continue to work with straight Hemphill blood. It was actually an honest post.

Now as to why IM would keep straight Hemphill blood (Duster) after having significant failures with the cross before that time, only he can answer that but he did write that even when he made the Iron Spike cross (when the hybrid vigor would be at its greatest), the results were not successful; therefore, there was no foundation to build on going forward. He further wrote that culling from those crosses would be spinning their wheels. If you bred back into Hemphill dogs after the cross, you bred back into frail, weak dogs that had a high percentage of curs and man-biters. IM has been quoted as saying that when you breed to a dog, you are actually breeding into that dog’s three generation pedigree. In that case, when breeding into Duster (50% Geronimo II in the second generation), you are getting an untested dog that lacked strength, was frail had a produced a high percentage of curs and man biters.
These are IM’s words! Are you really not getting this?

I know those who have this newer version of Hemphill blood want to feel good about seeing those dogs in your pedigrees but if anyone thinks you can go back to substandard blood (as IM described the Hemphill blood) and get quality pit dogs, well it just doesn’t work like that. As to the performance of these present day Norrod/Hemphill dogs, blood, there is no doubt that a significant percentage of dogs pedigreed as such are very good pit dogs. This is exactly one of the reasons that credible people who know true Hemphill dogs are doubting the validity of the Norrod/Hemphill peds. I visited a friend’s place the other day, who recently was given two of these Norrod Hemphill dogs. We looked at the younger of the two prospects on the chain and saw the heavily muscled body, deep muzzle, thick bones and big head. Without saying a word, we instinctively looked at each other and with an unspoken and common thought, sporadically began to chuckle. Heavy Hemphill dogs do not look like this. Danger is only 3.125% Maximillian. Even with selective breeding, the preponderance of Hemphill blood would overwhelm the gene pool of these dogs. Because the Hemphill blood was already so inbred, after the gene pool was closed (line-breeding off of your inbreeding), you would begin to see the recessive or undesirable attributes become the dominant traits within just a few generations. You would get Hemphill type dogs as IM described (frail, weak). They are trying to promote that the opposite occurred. That cannot happen in the physical world we live in. I don’t know why you believe logic and science do not apply here. Those are definitely good performance dogs, however they are bred.

The Bullyson analogy does not apply here. In Bullyson’s case, his pedigree shows that the best of the best were bred together for several generations to produce a devastating dog that happened to quit. Still, Bullyson produced world class dogs due to the blood behind his ped. The Bullyson story is a totally different scenario from the Norrod/Hemphill situation. In the current situation, they are saying there were generations of inferior dogs, who when crossed to a ROM producer were not worth the effort to cull. They bred back to the inferior side of the blood and produced world class dogs? Go figure!

There’s nothing to be scared about on this end. I’m writing what I’m writing.
I was excited about these high percentage dogs when I first heard of them. In fact, I expressed an interest in Danger and owned a litter sister to the dog known as Nardozzo’s Hemphill Scarlet. I am on record for giving praise to the dogs bred by JA, when they were having early success. It was Gino who first exposed the breeding about Danger. Further questions arose when JA began to breed and sell, as those sold dogs were not representative (physically or performance wise) of high percentage Hemphill examples. That’s when the people who had experience with true Hemphill dogs began to speak out. After further investigation (UKC docs, old posts made by IM and conversations with IM by several people), the overwhelming consensus from people who know, was that the dogs are not bred as papered.

Remember now, the people who are saying this are not breeders and sellers, so they have no agenda. They are not competing for puppy sales with JA or IM. They say the dogs are not bred as papered, based on what they know.

When you have no substance to refute a statement, some stoop to the level of personal attacks or aggression. This has been seen several times from the IM/JA camp. Another deflecting tactic is to create the illusion of conflict, to make it appear as if there is a personal problem between two camps, so that issues cannot be openly presented and discussed. On several message boards and privately, IM and or JA had the opportunity to present their case. They would rather create conflict and be divisive.

All of us here have one thing in common. We are all fans of OFRN dogs. We should be supportive of each other and for the most part, we are. We should all feel some pride in the success our fellow OFRN breeders are having. The only thing that kept us from being truly united was the separatist and elitist attitudes from the IM camp. They would berate or insult other breeders or the ancestors behind their dogs, often with no provocation. He has been expelled from almost every message board and even some credible organizations. He has had to create his own, just to maintain a platform. OFRN enthusiasts should be his targeted audience, yet he is largely shunned. But it’s everyone else’s fault, right? Everyone else is just jealous, right? I am encouraged to see that people have seen through the shroud of that weak minded psychology and do not look for their approval or acceptance. People seem to be operating fine without them or their dogs.

CrazyHorse · Sep 7, 2010

redheat said: ↑

Your not GAME!!! Your a coward, I know it for a fact you would not talk this mess to my face, standing toe to toe!!! Come talk your shit toe to toe, you coward.
Click to expand...

Red Heat I don't resort to violence I resort to islands! Tou know where I put on my Polo top, shades and linen shorts so my BALLS don't get HOT!

I see you got your bubble busted and you still haven't talked to Rob M....LMAO!

CrazyHorse · Sep 7, 2010

deathgrip said: ↑

Herb on Tue Aug 03, 2010 4:20 pm
+

-

Sun City,
I do not feel that the purpose of IM’s Hemphill comments were intended for only giving a side by side comparison of his traditional Iron Line blood, to the Hemphill blood of that era. In fact, if you go to the House of Bull message board, you will see that IM was actually responding to other people, who were extolling the greatness of present day Hemphill blood (namely an A-1 Idiot by the name of Fig Tree John), giving them the benefit of his experience with that line. The intent of his posts were to share information about some key dogs that show up in the straight Hemphill peds, along with sharing the results when he evaluated the offspring of his Hemphill cross. The inevitable comparison of his traditional Iron Line blood, to the Hemphill blood was given to further explain why he didn’t continue to work with straight Hemphill blood. It was actually an honest post.

Now as to why IM would keep straight Hemphill blood (Duster) after having significant failures with the cross before that time, only he can answer that but he did write that even when he made the Iron Spike cross (when the hybrid vigor would be at its greatest), the results were not successful; therefore, there was no foundation to build on going forward. He further wrote that culling from those crosses would be spinning their wheels. If you bred back into Hemphill dogs after the cross, you bred back into frail, weak dogs that had a high percentage of curs and man-biters. IM has been quoted as saying that when you breed to a dog, you are actually breeding into that dog’s three generation pedigree. In that case, when breeding into Duster (50% Geronimo II in the second generation), you are getting an untested dog that lacked strength, was frail had a produced a high percentage of curs and man biters.
These are IM’s words! Are you really not getting this?

I know those who have this newer version of Hemphill blood want to feel good about seeing those dogs in your pedigrees but if anyone thinks you can go back to substandard blood (as IM described the Hemphill blood) and get quality pit dogs, well it just doesn’t work like that. As to the performance of these present day Norrod/Hemphill dogs, blood, there is no doubt that a significant percentage of dogs pedigreed as such are very good pit dogs. This is exactly one of the reasons that credible people who know true Hemphill dogs are doubting the validity of the Norrod/Hemphill peds. I visited a friend’s place the other day, who recently was given two of these Norrod Hemphill dogs. We looked at the younger of the two prospects on the chain and saw the heavily muscled body, deep muzzle, thick bones and big head. Without saying a word, we instinctively looked at each other and with an unspoken and common thought, sporadically began to chuckle. Heavy Hemphill dogs do not look like this. Danger is only 3.125% Maximillian. Even with selective breeding, the preponderance of Hemphill blood would overwhelm the gene pool of these dogs. Because the Hemphill blood was already so inbred, after the gene pool was closed (line-breeding off of your inbreeding), you would begin to see the recessive or undesirable attributes become the dominant traits within just a few generations. You would get Hemphill type dogs as IM described (frail, weak). They are trying to promote that the opposite occurred. That cannot happen in the physical world we live in. I don’t know why you believe logic and science do not apply here. Those are definitely good performance dogs, however they are bred.

The Bullyson analogy does not apply here. In Bullyson’s case, his pedigree shows that the best of the best were bred together for several generations to produce a devastating dog that happened to quit. Still, Bullyson produced world class dogs due to the blood behind his ped. The Bullyson story is a totally different scenario from the Norrod/Hemphill situation. In the current situation, they are saying there were generations of inferior dogs, who when crossed to a ROM producer were not worth the effort to cull. They bred back to the inferior side of the blood and produced world class dogs? Go figure!

There’s nothing to be scared about on this end. I’m writing what I’m writing.
I was excited about these high percentage dogs when I first heard of them. In fact, I expressed an interest in Danger and owned a litter sister to the dog known as Nardozzo’s Hemphill Scarlet. I am on record for giving praise to the dogs bred by JA, when they were having early success. It was Gino who first exposed the breeding about Danger. Further questions arose when JA began to breed and sell, as those sold dogs were not representative (physically or performance wise) of high percentage Hemphill examples. That’s when the people who had experience with true Hemphill dogs began to speak out. After further investigation (UKC docs, old posts made by IM and conversations with IM by several people), the overwhelming consensus from people who know, was that the dogs are not bred as papered.

Remember now, the people who are saying this are not breeders and sellers, so they have no agenda. They are not competing for puppy sales with JA or IM. They say the dogs are not bred as papered, based on what they know.

When you have no substance to refute a statement, some stoop to the level of personal attacks or aggression. This has been seen several times from the IM/JA camp. Another deflecting tactic is to create the illusion of conflict, to make it appear as if there is a personal problem between two camps, so that issues cannot be openly presented and discussed. On several message boards and privately, IM and or JA had the opportunity to present their case. They would rather create conflict and be divisive.

All of us here have one thing in common. We are all fans of OFRN dogs. We should be supportive of each other and for the most part, we are. We should all feel some pride in the success our fellow OFRN breeders are having. The only thing that kept us from being truly united was the separatist and elitist attitudes from the IM camp. They would berate or insult other breeders or the ancestors behind their dogs, often with no provocation. He has been expelled from almost every message board and even some credible organizations. He has had to create his own, just to maintain a platform. OFRN enthusiasts should be his targeted audience, yet he is largely shunned. But it’s everyone else’s fault, right? Everyone else is just jealous, right? I am encouraged to see that people have seen through the shroud of that weak minded psychology and do not look for their approval or acceptance. People seem to be operating fine without them or their dogs.
Click to expand...

Let me start with your first paragraph...I.M. if you had called the man he would have told you he preferred the Red Devil over the Hemphill because it produced a higher % of pit dogs! I.M. would aslo tell you he didn't want to sit around for 1 hour or 2 plus hour shows but wanted to shut it down in less than 45 minutes, get the money and go home!

What failures with the Hemphill blood, Spike x Maud? Let's breakdown that litter shall we? Sambo 1XW, Babe 1XW and Rudy 2XW 1XL. By anyones standards that is a SUCCESSFULL litter and all the dogs were game including Trudy & Satan! Rudy went out at 12 months into a Grand Champion and lost game then went on to win two more before he jumped off a three story balacony and hung himself. The owner before he hung himself was Buffalo Soldier and he as no NEWBIE! He peeled the Rebel for repotedly over $250,000 in three straight shows!

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=offspring&dog_id=3348

If the cross was such a failure dogs such as Judy and Spice wouldn't have seen the light of day. Judy when bred to a RedBoy dog produce the 3x KILLER Ch Gambler who killed the dog who beat Butkus! If the cross didn't work Judy's sister Spice wouldn't have produced the 2XW Liza when bred to the same RedBoy stud!

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=offspring&dog_id=727

Once again if the cross didn't work Sambo 1XW wouldn't have dogs down from him WINNING TODAY!

Can you please show where I.M. said the Hemphill dogs were weak and frail because it's obvious you haven't seen the dogs down from the line including Duster who was FAR from a weak and frail looking dog...no different from Tiger, Princess, Danger, Tornado, Twister, Hurrican, Sierra, Scarlet, Rose. Gal, Ruby, Spike, Wisdom, Berry, Razberry, Scout, Cherry, Cochise, CrazyHorse, Wolf, Arrow, Squaw, Dixie, Red Buffalo, Maud II, Satan, Diablo, Madam, Harlot, Red Devil, Demon, Sioux, Indain Gal and etc!

Here are just a few pics of those weak and frail dogs!

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=277711

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=219049

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=255317

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=280602

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=280608

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=280606

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=265682

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=280605

http://oldfamilykennels.webs.com/females.htm

70lbs of the best representative of the Hemphill/Norrod family ALIVE TODAY!

Hey you don't have to take my word on this REV. you can pm GringoPistolero because he helped me feed this litter in '07!

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=siblings&dog_id=157494

He's amember on this board ask him how many weak and frail dogs he saw with his own two eyes...LMAO!

As far as the Bullyson ananolgy all you have to do is look at the Spike X Maud litter which was the FOUNDATION to all the dogs...same situation...excellent litter...excellent results!

Once again you forgot the influence of a Champion ROM dog would do to a bloodline or family once inbred and when the gene pool is closed ...do you want me to expand on that to?

Here is what you wrote Rev Al Sharpton.

All of us here have one thing in common. We are all fans of OFRN dogs. We should be supportive of each other and for the most part, we are. We should all feel some pride in the success our fellow OFRN breeders are having. The only thing that kept us from being truly united was the separatist and elitist attitudes from the IM camp. They would berate or insult other breeders or the ancestors behind their dogs, often with no provocation. He has been expelled from almost every message board and even some credible organizations. He has had to create his own, just to maintain a platform. OFRN enthusiasts should be his targeted audience, yet he is largely shunned. But it’s everyone else’s fault, right? Everyone else is just jealous, right? I am encouraged to see that people have seen through the shroud of that weak minded psychology and do not look for their approval or acceptance. People seem to be operating fine without them or their dogs.[/QUOTE]

*** No one has an attitude just those who have DONE what is SUPPOSED to be DONE reminds those who haven't are the ones who catch feelings! When the history of dogs are told CORRECTLY, FACTUALLY and TRUTHFULLY they get moist and defensive! Personally I could care less what OFRN breeders and woners do BECAUSE they don't breed, feed or have been more SUCCESSFULL than me...so why would I care? I blasted Red Heat for butting in on my post when I have never did the same to him! He got his feelings hurt when he found out the truth!...no different from you when you find out the TRUTH!

BTW I.M. has been more SUCCESSFULL that any other OFRN breeder in HISTORY!...that's no SECRET VICTORIA!!!!!

CrazyHorse · Sep 7, 2010

BTW if that pm came from Mallard/Herb/Mike P how can he expalin the weak frail 50+ lb Rose?...LOL!

BTW I know what can be explained the dog Arrow who many feel may be the best dog with a red nose on the West Coast and he's smaller than Rose...LMAO!

CrazyHorse · Sep 7, 2010

deathgrip said: ↑

You dont have to worry about that ALL Ol'' julieous Almands wants to do is talk shit from the safety of his KEYBOARD AND MOUSE. I have seen many people call him out and try to get him to come out in public and face them, after he talked shit to them, and he WOULD NOT... HE IS JUST JEALOUS OF YOU AND YOUR DOG. BECAUSE HE CLAIMS TO HAVE THE PUREST OFRN IN THE WORLD, BUT HE GETS CHOCOLATE and WHITE, along with his red PUPS WHEN HE BREEDS THESE PURE DOGS???? O'ya Iron Mike said Duster was FRAIL...
Click to expand...

Who called me out Ed? Are you still moist that H-Squad told you Arrow would have killed Ch Kaos 4XW 1XL in 20 minutes! Safety of a keyboard when I called out you and any other clown with a 11 month old pup?...REALLY! I get chocolate and white?...would that be any different from D. Henrich who bred only Inferno dogs?...BTW I get dogs with very little white ED! I also get dogs who perform in 2010 without a cross!

Show me anywhere where I.M. said the dogs were frail ED? I don't claim to have anything the peds say what they are...jealous? Jealous when H-Squad won't FUCK with you and you are a mid 40 who lives with your Mom and Pops with one dog who has NEVER produced a WINNER in his whole life and I'm supposed to be jealous of YOU?!!!

Get real loser!

mdp1985 · Sep 7, 2010

Please correct me if I'm Wrong but I think IM did say that most hemphill dogs looked frail and weak or something along those lines but I think he was talking about the line being peddled to shit. Also I'm pretty sure I read this from a link posted on the red devil thread but can't check because now when I click on the link it's asks for a password and I am not a member of his billboard. Like I said if I'm wrong I'm wrong and please correct me.

CrazyHorse · Sep 8, 2010

mdp1985 said: ↑

Please correct me if I'm Wrong but I think IM did say that most hemphill dogs looked frail and weak or something along those lines but I think he was talking about the line being peddled to shit. Also I'm pretty sure I read this from a link posted on the red devil thread but can't check because now when I click on the link it's asks for a password and I am not a member of his billboard. Like I said if I'm wrong I'm wrong and please correct me.
Click to expand...

I.M. was referring to Hemphill/Wilder dogs not the pure Hemphill or Hemphill/Norrod dogs! It was posted on his billboard and he used some of the examples I used to show what PERFORMANCE dogs look like!

CrazyHorse · Sep 8, 2010

mdp1985 said: ↑

Please correct me if I'm Wrong but I think IM did say that most hemphill dogs looked frail and weak or something along those lines but I think he was talking about the line being peddled to shit. Also I'm pretty sure I read this from a link posted on the red devil thread but can't check because now when I click on the link it's asks for a password and I am not a member of his billboard. Like I said if I'm wrong I'm wrong and please correct me.
Click to expand...

Hemphill/Wilder dogs were EXACTLY the dogs he was referring to! It's also on his billboard and notice how he explained the Hemphill/Norrod look like PERFORMANCE dogs!

mdp1985 · Sep 8, 2010

Oh ok cool I stand corrected

redheat · Sep 9, 2010

CrazyHorse said: ↑

Red Heat I don't resort to violence I resort to islands! Tou know where I put on my Polo top, shades and linen shorts so my BALLS don't get HOT!

I see you got your bubble busted and you still haven't talked to Rob M....LMAO!
Click to expand...

Coward?

p1tbull · Sep 9, 2010

look like someone knows his shit about these dogs.

Young SeNsE_VA · Sep 9, 2010

Crazy horse i got a question. Since you have alot of ammons dogs then that must mean you know him or you are him. In 2007-2008 the Ammons guy was telling people that his dog ran over a dog off macho buck,el negro,dynomite,lefty but there is no proof to any of that to be true so crazy horse whats the real story?????:confused:

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