Vise Grip's Poncho 1xw 1xl

the number system was did not note how good the dog was. there was no way for jack to know that, and if you think he or anyone else for that matter was relying on the opinion of most dogmen your crazy. the number system just showed whether or not someone was a known or recognized dogman and whether the dog was a winner or champion. the quality of the dog was and is always subjective. there are plenty of shit dogs and curs that made champion. grand champ was different as you had to go into known people with known refs. there were a lot of 5xw's that jack wouldn't give the title to because they didn't go into top comp.

 

i haven't and back in the day, neither did most of the dogmen i came across which says a lot. there were some mayday dogs that had some poncho type blood that ive seen. ch monster had some i believe and i remember jack bragging about that even though if you look at him he's a typical mayday dog and jack had nothing to do with him.

again, please tell me what were the top dogs he produced? he bred the balls off his dogs for 10 or 15 years. that comes out to hundreds and hundreds of pups. now on peds online there are all of a sudden 40 champions from this line but years ago when jack was breeding tons of dogs where were all they?

 

So if a dog goes into top competition and gets a[2] that alone wouldn't tell me how good the dog is? Are you serious? come on man, lol....

 

what are you talking about?? the number system has nothing to do with the quality of the dogs competition. a 1 simply meant the other camp was recognized, meaning they have been around for a while. a 2 means the dog was a champion and a 3 means it was a grand champion if i remember correctly.

later on they dropped the number system because some people may have falsely claimed that it was some kind of promoter of the dogs value or accomplishments.

so how hard is it to understand that ch, gr ch, and rom were titles given out to dogs that met a certain criteria. nothing more, nothing less, and just because a dog got the title didn't mean it was great.

now there were dogs at the time that were well known multiple winners who's owners didn't report. those dogs were never known as champion this or grand champion that. i remember hearing about a dog named melonhead that was 10 plus time winner. i never once heard him called gr ch melonhead back in the day.

the point thats lost on this is that ca jacks a perfect example of this. today on peds online pocho is an rom, a por, and stormbringer is a champion. both those dogs were around and campaigned a long time ago and neither had any of those titles. now that titles are given to dogs by there owners both dogs are "top of the food chain" and poncho's bloodline has produced forty champions. im going to ask one more time, where were they when jack was breeding dogs? which ones were RECOGNIZED CHAMPIONS?????

i'll give you one more example. back in the day there was an east coast kennel i used to see around that was not known as a "winning" kennel by any stretch. i never found this suprising because to me, besides the fact that they were lowlifes(not uncommon as you may know), they had no respect for their animals and treated them like dogshit. how they expect a dog they treat like a piece of garbage to perform at a top level made me realize that these guys lost mostly because they were idiots(and scumbags). they were buying and breeding top bred dogs but seemed to always lose with them.

then the other day i decided to look at famous dog on peds online and low and behold what do i see. these guys have a bunch of champions and grandchampions now. now how is it that guys that couldn't win with top bred dogs back in the day all of a sudden have a yard of nothing but champions and grand champions? also keep in mind that these are the type of dudes you wouldn't put your wallet down in front of. please explain this to me?

 

pedsonline is the playground for fake dogmen with $30 to spend lol.
they abuse the fact that its a database for historical purpose so that people can view how there dogs are bred or plan out a breeding.
to me i would not waste my time looking to see if they were real champions unless i was running the blood or buying a pup off said dogs. i believe some of those ch were just back yard rolls i can also bet that as soon as the owner of one of the dogs called cali jack to thank him for sending him a good dog and how he tested well it was automatically a 1xw in jacks eyes.
i will have to also say that the proof is in the pudding as many people say, the poncho blood is high percentage from what i have seen and from people i know running the blood.
i agree with borat i too have noticed some guys from 10-20 years ago who couldnt win a coin toss now claim to have this or that champion.

 

I think we are argueing similiar points. I just think that if a dog goes into tough competition and gets a number then to me the dog is better or more valuable then a dog that didnt go into top competition. Would you rsther breed to a stud that beat 3 chasmpions or a stud that beat 3 1x winners? To me thast is what makes a dog better then the next. It's all about accomplisments.

 

Just a little off point. Thanks wardog for explaining the astrixes in the journal. I took a closer look and you were exactly right. I learn something new on this board all the time.

 

not to beat a dead horse but technically he's not exactly right. the asterick doesn't imply someone is "more than qualified" to ref. all it means is that the person is "recognized" by the dogworld, meaning he has been around for a while.

 

Well does that not equal to being "more qualified"? I mean would being recognized by your peers and have more experience in the dogs make you more qualified than someone who has'nt?

If you stick to your circle and I'm not talking about your "local circle" of dogmen....but dogmen with good reps and that have been competing honestly and privately then you don't need no SDJ to let you know what dogs are good and what dogs are fake.

Also not sure if this was true, but back then...did you not have to have campaigned a CH before being considered to ref a show?

YIS

 

Actually in the July/Aug/ 1996 issue page 59 it gives you a little more understanding to the system. Here it is so you can draw your own conclusion.

 

Poncho dogs are a good family of dogs , based on some solid solid solid ass blood, Hammer is bolio x boomerang , and coca cola pure hollingsworth, Having said that , All the ch's he claims are definitively not of his breedings , normaly outcossed blood with ohter lines, His blood is an ingredient , sometines just a quarter or less, The mayday kitana stuff has shown succesful but is it because of a gr ch or the 1xw 1xl , You do the math, There is no doubt there has to be some good dogs come off the blood it has a solid base , but in my humble opinion has not been put in the right hands otherwise there would be tons ot tons of ch SEEN by the people that compete!! ITs a tight circle, even in the entire planet for real sportsmen, WE ALL KNOW WHO WE ARE AND WHAT DOGS WE USE! LIKE ANY industry we all know are competiion and normaly run into each other at events ! Jack is a bright writter so of course its in his best interest to put the hype and the sizzle on the steak , I GOT NEWS FOR ALL, !! SELF INTEREST RUNS THIS FUCKING PLANET!!! HE IS NOT GOING TO SAY MY DOGS SUCK DONT PAY FOR THEM!! Its a tough world and times are hard everyone has to eat ! Are they good dogs I dont know find out for yourself, In my opinion have been in wrong hands that means dont evolve as should I myself have competed in most states and have yet to see a good one or a bad one , Jack says the same about dogs off of my fav stud dog only difference is I am copeting weekly, so I see a ton more but thats not here nor their , If you have the money to spend , buy what you like , It is a capitalistic society and a free world , try it out yourself and then you will know and give feed back !

blackrocks kennels of mexico

 

i already know the answer but is there any truth to this dog??

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/modules.php?name=Public&file=printPedigree&dog_id=89832

 

no professional will show at 10 months, sounds like a roll to me, an exaberated one, after that roll went into real kennel prob anohter roll and claimed a loss speculative but x men are real kennel ask them
A

 

th man has openly admittede that he believes he has contributed more and is a better breeder than colby , tudor, carver floyd, heinzl, and clemmons, he said they never gave halfo of what he did to the game. the guy is fucking dilusional and deserves no credit for anything, all he deserves is to have his ass kicked. also claims he has the best keep, yet he has never used it himself.

 

DAMN!!!!! Cali Jack has a zombie strain now?!

 

Well, a dog around my area got renamed Zombie, for exactly that reason...

 

Like that dog from BMW club forget his name,maybe off black angel?Frisco stuff pretty black and white dog.

 

this dog?
ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [53644] :: BMW'S ICKIS 2X

 

yep didnt even have to pull the ped I always forget his name thanks

 

I see ya Naus, you been on your shit from day one, good job Super Mod!


Mntman, get with me.