Bloodlines and regions

that is what happens in general, but is this not evolution?

Evolution...a gradual change in the characteristics of a population of animal or plants over successive genarations.

gradual development, esp. to a more complex form

 

no, it is not evolution, not even close. evolution is a species adapting its characteristics to changes in enviornment, over time. thousands of years. not a few generations, and not from the decisions a human breeder makes in choosing the charactersitcs they desire in breeding a family of dogs.

the differences you would see in the dogs from the same family, bred by different people would be the result of an individuals breeding practices. what if one likes the shorter more stocky version, and the other like a leaner more terrier type. what if one seeks out heavy boned animals more so than another? or one has an eye for great athletisism and exploits that in his dogs? the dogs would end up in just a few generations with slightly different characteristics, but overall they would most certainly be very similar based on thier origin being the same foundation bloodline.

i have seen frisco dogs from different parts of the country, bred and raised on different yards. i have some from tom off bolo, and some from the MOAK stuff in a different region. now i have bred into some simba stuff. overall they have a lot of similarities, but each branch carries its own unique blend and i think it is because of the individuals who got the dogs and how they chose to pursue breeding and raising them.

 

I agree with the coat changing. I have gotten many dog from the South and they all had thin coats. A few years up here in the North their coat changes dramatically. As far as size, I don't think it would change to much except for actual weight. You must keep more weight on your dogs up here in the cold winter months. I think we have a bit of an advantage here in the North. In the summer our dogs experience hot & humid temperatures. In the winter they experience frigid temperatures. Our dogs in the summer are able to go down south and compete but bring a southern dog up here in the winter to compete and they have a bit more trouble. Great topic!

 

evolution, the gradual change in characteristics of a population of animal or plants over successive generations.

game test, you are wrong stating that i am not even close.
however you are correct that changes are made by human intervention, traits/build etc. are bred for thus influenced by people. other changes in hair thickness, so-on is an evolutionary change through enviroment. there has been no statement that these changes have been made through an animal being moved from one place or the other, and or being bred for one, maybe two generations. i believe the question was based on enviroment. the latter part (owner care) comes into another part...depending on what is ment by owner caring of course. eg. feed while upbringing/raising.
structure of an animal can and will change with influance by the way, or what the dog is used for. this will also take place over generations, not the latter being owner care.

 

we cannot use evolution as a reason in this discussion.

i am left handed. i have areas that are calloused on my left palm. if i use my right hand for a while, and get a callous in the same areas like my left hand, has my hand evolved?

no.


if someone asked me why thier dogs coat got thicker from moving to a cooler climate, or the opposite, the dogs coat got thinner from a warmer area, id venture to guess the dog is either shedding more or less than it normally did in its last environment. yes, this is an environmental respeonse, but it is definately NOT evolution.

 

game test, you missed the point with the hair thing.
i was not saying any changes were from moving dogs to different climates lol... what you say based on that is correct.

take a strain of dogs from one family to a hot climate and breed them gen after gen as you will.

now also take some from that same family, given that they are all the same in this case. and move them to a cold climate, now start breeding as you will.

with exception of the traits build etc. that each person may breed for in this case.
you will find that the dogs from the colder climate over ex generations will show a naturally thicker coat of hair.
as will the dogs from the hotter climate show a much thinner shorter coat of hair. nothing to do with the same dog being moved from one climate to another and shedding as you say, to adjust to the weather.

ive been around long enough as may well you have been, youll have a few years to catch up, lol.. but i have seen this.
i have had dogs from a hot climate that i have bred, and the pups had a more naturally shorter thin coat as did the parents. also i have aquired dogs from a much cooler part of the country and when bred, off spring showed a much thicker heavier coat as did the parents. they did not change while here atleast lol, but now, generations later all show the same type hair.

ps. sorry to hear about your hand problem. if you leave little game test alone you proberly wouldnt get calloused palms...lol..
that was a joke take it in good faith mate.. ok..

sometimes we think we know but we really dont, i must be one of those that dont....
its ok, i get it all the time, sometimes i dont know why i try

The basis of evolution is the genes that are passed on from generation to generation; these produce an organism's inherited traits. These traits vary within populations, with organisms showing heritable differences (variation) in their traits. Evolution itself is the product of two opposing forces: processes that constantly introduce variation, and processes that make variants either become more common or rare. New variation arises in two main ways: either from mutations in genes, or from the transfer of genes between populations and between species. In species that reproduce sexually, new combinations of genes are also produced by genetic recombination, which can increase variation between organisms.
Two major mechanisms determine which variants will become more common or rare in a population. One is natural selection, a process that causes helpful traits (those that increase the chance of survival and reproduction) to become more common in a population and causes harmful traits to become more rare. This occurs because individuals with advantageous traits are more likely to reproduce, meaning that more individuals in the next generation will inherit these traits. Over many generations, adaptations occur through a combination of successive, small, random changes in traits, and natural selection of the variants best-suited for their environment. The other major mechanism driving evolution is genetic drift, an independent process that produces random changes in the frequency of traits in a population. Genetic drift results from the role that chance plays in whether a given trait will be passed on as individuals survive and reproduce.

 

How much can you attribute to the region rather than the owners choices?

Since this topic is talking mainly about coats, would living in the North on a chain year around produce the same coat as living in the North in a house year around? Both are in the same region but have different owners (for this instance we will say they are the same dog with different owners who choose to house the dogs differently).

Would the same exact dog living on a chain in a yard of game proven dogs produce a dog with more chances of being game rather then that dog being raised as a one only family dog in the house?

 

again, i think the point has been missed. ( gradual change in characteristics of a population of animal or plants over successive generations.

and i really hope you are not serious on the last question, please tell me you are not?
do some research on the words above in blue.

 

Actually, all animals over time will adapt to their environment, or they will die.
Considering we, human beings, are facing muliple threats from all fronts- many of our own making, we're simply the most complex proof of the rule...for the time being.

 

That´s rigt it when but it takes about 100 generations, so it is not evolucion. This is just due to the capacity to adapt to the enviroment, it can be on any species even humans. You can see we get more tan in the sun in a sunnier climate and also our hair shows some diffences being more dry,rough, or smooth to get more advantages to the weather. This is just what happens to the dogs, just in their own way.

 

yall tripping

as far as the coat goes it depends on the family of dogs

im in texas weather is f'd up

but I can go to one mans yard and his line showes the thicker coat

go down the block to another mans house and his line of dogs shows the thinner coat

its all about how they are bred

during the winter naturally the coats get a little thicker and the shed during the summer
:cool:

 

Oh you mean your awesome copy and paste job from wikipedia?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution


And about my last question... tell me why you do not think its a valid question to bring up please. After all, found within your "blue links" the question revolves around Edmund Brisco Ford's research on Ecological Genetics. Can traits be learned? If everyone agrees that "gameness" cannot be learned and is entirely based on genes and genes only then that would sufficiently answer my last question. After all, why would I ask it if I knew the answer. The title "Junior Member" is very fitting as I came on here to expand my knowledge.

 

The variations that are seen are due to breeding decisions not enviornment.

 

Well, with 4 post and a shit load of pm's you are coming off as a dick(sorry for cursing Marty). You say your here to learn, well then do so, don't interject your thoughts and say you answered your question in your next post. Rudeness aint gonna get you know where, especially on this site. Why don't you tell the board a little about yourself and your hounds for starters, and I'm sure they will except you as a learner. Respect is earned not given.

 

so what if i copied and pasted it ass wipe, is that not good enough for you to start at? as for the words in blue, do not incorectly state them as Mine, they obviously are not. i put it up so someone could read it. you disrespectful ass
delete if ya want mods. i give up on these young wannabees.
marty, you know who i am, you want to ban me me mate, go ahead. nobody respects anything nomore.
F.D..grow up young one, stop making like you know everything and god know's you could actually learn something.
you couldnt even read what was put infront of you,plain and simple, whats with the different lines bs. it was stated "if it were the same dog"
research and think about it before you just throw it out there. nobody just even sat down and thought about what was said. what a great time we live in. everybody knows everything, ha. and i thought i made it easy by COPY and PASTING something for you to get a start on.
dam shame.

as for your last question P..you tell me how a dog can learn to be anything by living on a chain lol....
so that answer is obviously No isnt it. as for your house dog, yeh, he can learn how to shake, roll over etc. depends on what you want to teach him doesn't it. and i do appolagise as i can only assume from what ive seen between the 70's till 2009. i must have been oblivious to my surroundings.

game test, i should appologise for my statement that this is evolution but rather a part of based on my time

 

Understood. :o

I apologize to Marty for appearing to come on his site and show disrespect. That was never my intention. Thank you Mac for answering a few of the many questions I have. I only asked you because I valued your opinion and knowledge. Behavin - You have been at this waay longer that me. I only meant to carry on the thread and not attack you personally. The rest of the members, I swear I am not a dick. I will introduce myself in the intro section.


--- Carry on with this thread as it could lead to some great discussion without jerks like me derailing it -----