The show for tonight on americanbullyworld

Hope it's not up for sale because of the show! The site is definitely needed and a valued tool.

 

Nope its all jealousy man :rolleyes:

 

BTK... I've said it before .. The over population is not as outstanding in the APBT world as it is in the bully world.. True their are APBT peddlers but there are for more bully peddlers..
I have yet to see any game bred dogs in my city.. And some people in my city have them but you don't see them.. You see the bullies.Why? Because bigger is better..
Like I told marty last night , I don't see how teaming up and fighting is gonna help this breed if the tryfling (sp) breeding practices of MOST bully breeders keep up... Again,I am not saying APBT breeders don't peddle and breed most of the time for no specific reason... I am just saying it is more common in the bully world...
I honestly think that all game dog people should try and keep there dogs out of the public eye.. Let the bully crowd have the street scene...
And even if they do ban this dog,what does that change,people will still own these dogs..

 

CLK,

I live in Atlanta, but travel all over talking to teens. The majority of them have never seen an actual Bully. In Atlanta, Bullies are definitely not taking over and the major counties are flooded with APBTs, not guesses but facts here in Atlanta.

I guarantee that if you walk through AC and see 10 Bully Breeds you may find 2 Bullies, maybe. As many blues are out there, they don't dominate AC.

The kids I talk to from the "streets" could not afford a AmBully. They have typical APBTs.

I want to make another statement: the term Gamedog gets thrown around a lot. There are few gamedogs, True gamedogs are sold amongst a very private group of individuals there best dogs are not open to public stud. I know because I personally know some. So they would NOT be prevalent.

That being said the average ADBA / UKC dog is what most people see. Will the AmBully one day be everywhere, at the rate of breedings are taken place there definitely is and will be a major problem to contend with.

I think most people do their research on the Internet and never actually beat the streets to see what is really going on. Everything I do is not just to battle BSL, educating people who own these breeds in person is more important most of the time.

Everybody does what they feel they need to do. If you feel it's a waste of time, then cool. I will be at a event tonight and involving APBT rescue and I will see what I see more of Bullies or APBTs.

I here people talk about the hood and the dogs there, and it always sounds as hilarious as someone from the HSUS talking about a dogmans house in the country. Niether have
actuLoy been to the actual place and are just going off assumptions. The majority of digs in the Quote on Quote hood are not Bullies.

The AmBully crowd are mostly from the burbs, they may have an image of what society deems as street, but majority are family folk. Young so impressionable, but not gangsters and thugs. I dress the same but have a degree from The University of Georgia (Go Bulldogs!) father of three and a nationally published writer for several magazines across a vast variety of genres.

If you look at me most here may assume that I was a Bully dude from the hood, but then again outside of the Bully Breeds, ie, Joe Public thinks I'm a dogfighter. Because I don't loathe Mike Vick and own a breaking stick lol. What a win win situation huh?

Excuse my typos please

 

My area,hood,whatever... Bullies dominate and get sold at flea markets for as low as 150... As I said, the folks I know who own gamebred dogs are not allowing the public to see them... This is my area. And BSL will not affect those people... I will say that your above post made sense but is not relevant to my city.. Here bigger is better..lol... But my outlook is obviously not relevant to your city...
Different strokes for different folks...

 

I understand and definitely see a BIG problem in the very near future, due to the mass overbreeding of dogs that BYBs feel are money makers. I also agree that TRUE dogmen are not concerned with nor have the ever been concerned with the mass marketing of their kennels.

The Bully phemonom is fueled by extensive Internet marketing campaighns, websites, message boards and chat rooms. There is a demand, and with public demand comes many many negatives. One of which is that anyone can make money off these dogs.

Regardless of what one breeds they should be trying to produce SOUND healthy animals. People aggressive Bullies should be Euthanized no Ifs ands or buts. Not every dog should be bred breed for the Standard not for the Exception.

Due to what has happened to the APBT as a whole I preach that we do not repeat the past. The reason there are so many APBTs is because old APBT owners became lax in whom they let get dogs. I want AmBully people to be more selective in who they sell dogs to. There are great AmBully owners and breeders who believe in their breed and are implementing good breeding practices.

I enjoy this site because I like discussions revolving around more than breedings. I hope that this board remains open to discussions that can educate the masses.

 

I listened to the show the other night, I appreciate what you are trying to do and I have changed my mind on how I felt about some bully owners and breeders from listening to your show. BUT (lol) the breeders that are going to come on and listen to the show are not the ones that need the education, they will seek out the information they are searching for. I believe most people are going to do what they want no matter what anyone says, we all know that. Anytime someone comes on any of the boards and posts about breeding or need an education they won't listen and leave so it didn't do any good. (not that any one should not try to educate it just seems pointless most of the time. Theses are the people that are causing the problems. I have the same mind set as CLK for the most part. I don't think every mutt needs saved I wish they wouldn't be. I know that sounds mean but I wish more would be humanly euthanized. Get these dogs out of the public, close the circle. Quit selling any bully breed type to the general public. The population needs to be controlled this is never going to end when any one with money or knows the right people are able to get a dog with such specific needs and care in owning, breeding, and culling. I know my views aren't the most popular view to have but something has to be done besides what is being done, it isn't working.

 

How did your event go?

 

If the majority of the dogs in Atlanta aren't ambully's then what are they?really?
I can't speak for atlians but I'm curious.
To many including myself a ambully's is usually a blue dog of amstaff and apbt breeding with mastiff and some type of bulldog up in the wood pile,where I'm at those are the majority of the dogs scene period!
And just to clarify i live in California so,yes,theres allot of bully's here,my next door neighbor has two from scorrpion kennels that he will breed when the bitch comes into here first heat.
Just because a dog is un/papered dosent mean it isn't a bully,I believe a dog that is byb,and the majority of its ancestry consists of gaff,re,gotti and York with some b.s here and there is a bully,and thats all i see.
And to clarify i have a shelter rescue dog that could go either way,he has no papers but I'm willing to bet theres "re" up in there or gaff no doubt about it,
and my other male is ukc reg and has chevy reddog and whopper up in there and is 6x danger zone[ohealers] so i know what a bully is[and in my opinion he isn't].
Anyways i lived in oak park,the hood many would say in sacto[as well as medow view del paso hieghts and south sac]and on my one block[2nd ave and Broadway]there were literally 16 apbts in one city block,most were a mix of bully,apbt and American bulldog etc,but even the ice cream man had a pit,and it was a huge 100 pound blue,mostly 187 homicidal roughneck and gotti so if it wast a bully i dont know what it was?
So there out there for sure in huge numbers were I'm at,and thats all i can speak for.
However Atlanta is well known for having bully kennels i dont see how they could be a rare sight there,jmo.

 

My biggest issue is this.
Seeing as how these dogs are at least as much American bulldog or neo mastiff [or pick a mastiff or bulldog strain],why aren't they registed as such?why are they registered as apbts?My only guess would be because the ukc and adba lets it be so.
In that case they are also at fault,but really why arent the breeders advertising them as such?I guess if the ukc didnt register them then theyd be alittle more open abot what they had,i mean the ukc is giving bully breeders papers saying you have a apbt,why wouldnt they say thats what they got,i understand that much.
but When will ambully breeders be honest about what they added into there dogs?
Is it because they are lieing that they dont say,or is it because they believe that there dogs are little more than apbt/amstaffs that are line bred for a certain aesthetic?
I mean i went too a bully show in my town a few months ago and i saw dogs that were first generation crosses of pitterstaff and neo mastiff and registered by the ukc.

 

They are a rare site in AC

 

so what is mostly there?
If it isn't blue dogs of most likely bully ancestry then what is it? i must be in the bully Mecca of the world[and i probably am].
I wonder why instead of the ultimate apbt they aren't advertised as the "functional Neapolitan mastiff"?One reason there not is the neo folks wouldn't stand for it.....
These dogs are as much American bulldog or mastiff as they are pitbull,period.
I just wish breeders would fess up to it.
I have no problem with a functional bully bred for work or at least capable of doing so as you see in allot of the old greyline dogs or watch dog for that matter.

 

Calfornia as a whole does have the largest AmBully population, relevanced by it's shows. There were a lot of points brought up in this thread. Many which I would say are myths, or at least the idea of what many think is going on.

First, Atlanta has it's fair number of Bullies but as someone who goes to the parks and truly interacts with the community I will honestly say they are outnumbered by what I would deem as non Bully style APBTs. One of the largest Bully shows is put on in Atlanta but the majority of kennels in attendance are not from here.

Mastiffs being bred in is a common theme here. In looking at the dogs at shows, I don't see all of the Mastiff influence and I have been around Neos, BullMastiffs, and Douges. The height and length of a mastiff I think would effect the height too much. They want Bullies to be under or at 18 inches.

Once again why call them Neo this or mastiff that? As long as they don't claim to be APBTs I don't see the beef. Even if the argument is used that Madtiff was mixed in the common breed in all of them is APBT. Sad maybe, but the truth.

Common misconceptions are that if a dog is blue, big as hell, and of RE, Gotti, Gaff or York they are a American Bully. As someone who shows in the UKC and has predominately Gaff Knowlwoods blood. My dogs and the dogs they are bred off of as well as their grandsires and granddams most of whom I have seen and put my hands on ARE NOT AmBullies. So to assume so is false.

I think it's a muddled situation for sure. I don't speak on anyone elses community, just those I have been to and where I have contact with those who know.

The event last night was a flop, I felt bad because it was something for the breed, free and positive. I was asked what I thought about the PitBull situation in America and I said we are now at a point in history where people and groups feel that they can do enough by typing. So no one shows up for good causes, I can attend a Bully Show attended by 1000 people, or a UKC show that at least draws 50, but a positive event draws zip.

The AmBully is another breed of dog, there are breeds started every year. Most fail, the reason they fail is not so much record keeping and history, it's the lack of a following. That is straight from a AKC reps mouth.

A breed in my opinion is first and foremost TYPE, breed type is the key component of a breed bred for show in my opinion. The thing about the APBT is that is was not attended to be bred for what it looked like, but bred for what it could do.

I want to also clarify that I am not saying that AmBullies are rare, they are not. They are outnumbered by the sheer number of Pit Bulls is all I am saying. By AC I am speaking about Animal Control, the American Bully is often reclaimed when it hits the shelter, most likely because of money but still. I recognize the problem as a whole but to put the blame at the Bully owners feet is misdirecting the issue in my opinion.

Like the post said above any AmBully registered with the ABKC had to first be registered with the UKC, ADBA, or AKC first. That being said I applaud the AmBully owners who register there dogs as such. If I didn't I would be advocating that they continue be registered as APBTs.

Pick one, I see APBT owners everyday who are walking around with timid scared little dogs that in my opinion are doing a far greater disservice. I walked my Hemphill boy through the event last night and he could care less. I did have to put my back against the wall so that no little newbie walked their rescue up on him, forgetting what breed we have. I would have him no other way however.

Tuesday I have some kids scheduled to come on the show, but I think I'm going to address this Mastiff issue as well. I see more Bulldog traits than Mastiff. I will call around to maybe 3 ACs around the country and see if I can get them to call in on what they see.

Maybe Atlanta, Los Angeles, New York, and maybe a fourth in TX. See what they really see walking down euthanasia row.

 

With respect I don't think we are the ones who need educating on this, BTK you said yourself that your uncle had game dogs and you have one yourself I also heard you say on your show that you saw a distinction between the two. they are not the same breed? this problem with bsl is not going away any time soon whatever country you live in [eventually] bar one or two...and game dog people teaming up with am bully people I believe is a mistake. The general public think a pit bull is something other than a pit bull, the picture they have in their head is a big/wide dog with a spiked collar? So my question is why show them what a REAL pit bull looks like? The whole am bully/game dog thing has been discussed on this forum and in my opinion was unbalanced, advocates for staying on our own side of the street were almost afraid to be tiotally honest with how they felt because we were told very directly that we would be banned!

now that is not a balanced discussion and hardly fair....hell I may even get banned for saying this, but hey I still have my game dog

I appreciate and understand what you are trying to do but game dogs [real ones] have overcome the odds for hundreds of years, so like your uncle would have known they are not going anywhere soon....oh and just so you know I talk from experience regarding bsl I had two dogs taken from me, those dogs did nothing wrong, neither did I, they were healthy well kept animals so as far as my feelings go you would think id grab a banner and start protesting with anyone who was willing to do the same, but I look deeper than that...I agree with clkennels... you gotta keep these dogs out of the public domain for THEIR own safety, THEY need to be protected from the public..not the other way around, anyone with good experience will know that.

don't reg your dogs folks, that's a good start.

 

The general population imo, doesn't know the difference between an AmBully and APBT. Unless they are or were a fancier of the true breed long before the madness started, most could care less. I was born and raised in California, been up and down NorCal/Socal. I was also in the army, so I've been around the country and the world. For as long as I can remember, dependent on your geographical location, the perception of what is or isn't a pitbull type dog is all tainted.

Different registries, all have there version of the written standards, for their '"type" of dogs. Most are vague and are created by the breeds National recognized clubs for each registry or the registry itself. For example the gamebred type dog is upheld by the ADBA or AADR registries. As those registries also highly regard a dogs performance capablity, they do have conformation standards for the show aspect. The UKC for example has its standard type and is enforced by the National American Pitbull Terrier Association (NAPBTA).

Those who know the UKC history know that the registry was originally created for working lines of dogs. They to also encourage many dog sports and events, but as for the APBT standard, conformation standard that is, selective breeding has created another "type" of pitbull. Imo, they are moving more towards the AKC standards.

Thats why you see so many dual registered AmStaffs in the UKC ring. This alone is becoming an epidemic, and is hurting the breed further. Those who have owned UKC registered APBT know that their dogs can't be registered as AmStaffs in the AKC, but no so the truth, vise verse. AKC AmStaffs can be registered as UKC APBT's and have been proven to win in the conformation ring.

As for the newest registry the American bully Kennel Club (ABKC). This registry was created to consolidate and create "place called home registry" for the nation wide, world wide bully movement. It's a fad and trend that is cattered to the modern and urban cultures. A younger generation dating back to the early 90's. With all the "hype and hoopla" comes $$$. Lots of it, because of the associations with iconic or mainstream role models or figures in todays society. Also popular amongst car show enthusiast.

This is not a knock on the new registry and imo is a somewhat positive move to distance themselves from the original APBT's and recognize a new breed and type of dogs, with certain characteristic and overall temperment. Imo these dogs are more of a companion breed, then a working line of dogs. Many will disagree with me AND are breeding for the so called "next big thing". But, when it comes to topics as, health, breeding code of ethics, tempermant, overall soundness, function, form, belief. It has become such a wide spectrum that everything in between, has become just that... "A dream".

 

With all due respect noway no one ever told you that you would be banned for expressing your opinion about bullies. If that was the case several of you would be banned already.lol. What was said that BTK was a special Invited guest by Marty and would not be thrown in The Pit Section. If you did not know there are quite a few special invited guest on this site. Some people that you have heard of and some you havent. Now I think you know that I love GBD's, this whole bully thing is something different for people that are trying to get the message out about BSL. Power in numbers, like what has been said before if the APBT goes Bullys goes with it, and vice versa. But some on here are doing nothing now for the breed but have the loudest opinion. That to me makes no sense but this is America and people can do what they feel.

 

I'm talking about the other thread 'b' the one that was closed and now removed afaik, anyway man I have no beef with anyone I have no problem here I just stated a fact. BTK seems like an intelligent man and has His view on this. I respect what He is doing but that don't mean I want to do the same that's all. I also respect you B I wasn't talking about this thread.

I didnt personally see anyone getting out of hand myself ppl were just being honest about how they felt and it seemed to me that those who were not jumping on the train were told if your not with us you are against us, that's a fact. I'm not here to cause trouble but how is someone supposed to feel if a statement like that is made....clearly unfair in my book. that doesnt exactly set a basis for healthy debate....lot of emotion wrapped up in this breed along with its history, we need to remember that on both sides of the fence.

 

I will not bann you or edit you. No worries there.

I agree the APBT should not be in the public eye. But that cat is out of the bag.

These folks need to learn and know what it means to own and be responsible for the APBT or type breeds. I think what this is, is opprotunity to educate those that have been divided or those that have not been reached. This is just another platform to speak from. There are plenty of folks with the APBT that need the same info. This is not exclusive to the bully as you know.

This just might be me. But just cause someone owns a APBT does not mean that I have to do dogs with them. But can I help them with their animals sure. It is in my bennefit that they get some act right! It will always be better coming from me than the man.

Not everyone should step out into the light. But there are some of us that have no reason not to.


I respect your oppinion.

 

I appreciate the time you guys have given to the topic and the show.

I definitely 100% whole heartedly agree with both points being made about game dogs being out of the public eye and public scrutiny. I just had a long conversation with a breeder in MS of some of the finest Snooty/Eli dogs in the country and I know for a fact he has no desire to ever be known by the masses, but appreciates the respect he receives from those respected.

I definitely do not go to any forum and teach those I can learn from. I feel that in dogs in general there is a vast amount of education and experience that can be had, I also believe that the smaller your circle the less you can truly learn or actually teach.

Do I want Game Dog Forum and American Bully World to get married? Hell No!! Those would be some ugly babies lol! My thoughts are more on the lines of being neighborly.

I want the show I do to be more of a debate amongst people, with no risks of being banned. I will debate anyone on any dog related matter or issue. I can disagree with a person without condeming them.

The point I constantly argue that the love for Bully Breeds transcends any race, age, social class or education level.

The fact is the APBT as a whole is in my opinion one of the most popular breeds of dogs in the country. Is that a good thing NOooooo!!!' but it's a reality. The fact that anyone of us can go out on any weekend and see what someone thinks is a Pit Bull, is why I try to bring educational discussions to the head of the table. The only other breed I am guaranteed to see one of is a Lab.

I like talking dogs and I like discussing different issues, and it's more beneficial when not everybody in the room agrees with me.

I feel that to get a dogs like my uncles Goose, I will always have to maintain relationships with people who don'take friends easily or often lol. I am also proud of the fact I can walk on those yards and they would place a dog with me no questions asked. Young good looking black man in baggy pants playing rap music and riding on rims far too big lol. They no I respect their line would not breed it and would never send people to them that are not of the same cloth.

I hope that I can remain neighborly with all walks of Bulldog folk.


In regards to me, I appreciate Marty and Hemi and everybody who stuck up for what I do, but my debates are open to anyone who wants to participate. On air so no confusion through typos lol. I know some have no unrest but there are a lot of people who like to talk dogs all day everyday.

I agree as well I don't like one side of the street discussions, but I don't advocate beating people down just because they have a different opinion either.

 

I agree with a lot of what you said and thank you for seeing my viewpoint.

I think the problem is 'ignorance' sometimes you cannot educate ignorance, by that I mean media hype as it is has ingrained into the gp that these dogs are not to be trusted, that they can switch at any moment... now we know that can be said of any breed of dog, though not any breed of dog is in the firing line the apbt is.

I firmly believe that its us as human beings that are essentially to blame our cuture is one that is so f**** up that we accessories everything..the image of the apbt has become a part of that and BTK please forgive me but when I look at the am bully I see our f**** up culture and social mindset staring me in the face we can say things like a game bred dog is too much dog for some ppl to handle so lets frankenmake a dog that we can handle...well I think that's just a mirror for OUR desire to accessorise and actually has nothing to do with the too much dog statement otherwise...buy a stafford! a perfectly healthy animal that looks good and is kinda socially acceptable [I know they are lumped in with bsl] but you get my point....boxer/ lab whatever.

thats where I see a problem here so for me to go along waving a flag defending the ambully and saying yes this dog is like mine they are pit bulls and they are under attack is incorrect because its not a pit bull its an accessory. A game dog is a different thing, I do not fight my dogs or do anything untoward with them but I respect where it came from, they are special in my eyes almost sacred in a way. I hate to see the negative media and yes Simms you are right bad owners and irresponsible ppl are the problem.

I just think I need to keep my end covered I think its all too late in the game to look at joining forces. I don't have to be right about anything im humble enough to admit i'm wrong sometimes. I hope you all prove me wrong but if not I won't say I told you so either because that will be a very sad day for us all. its not about any of that.

Like I said I respect the next mans decision to try and do something positive at the same time I say choose your medicine. i.e make your own mind up how your gonna deal with this issue.