American Bullies: WTF!

Yesturday I was talking to this guy and I was "trying" to educate him about an apbt.

So after talking to him he then went on to tell me about these American Bullies that they have now. He said some guys starting breeding them from the early 80's (and claim that "they" say the apbt is evolving).
He said that what they did was to breed apbt and always keep the biggest out of the litter. They then breed these big pups to other big pups thus resulting in these so called American Bullies.
He said they are big (with big heads, weighing over 100lbs, big chest and so on) BUT that they are FULL BRED APBT. Saying that, they have a strict policy in which you have to prove (via papers/dna) that your American Bullie has only apbt in its pedigree.

After hearing this I told him I never heard about these. So I asked him if they were still athletic/well proportioned dogs and he said yes. I then went on to tell him that I am 110% certain that there has to be something in these dogs besides apbt.

So he told me to look them up..............which I did!

My conclusion after looking at these American Bullies: THEY ARE A WHOLE HEAP OF BULLSHIT!

People who want these "big" pits; get into another damn breed! PLEASE, I AM BEGGING YOU!

Why don't people who like these big pits just get into bull mastifs, American Bulldogs, Rotties etc!
Man this sort of shit really pisses me off!
Sorry, didn't mean to go off like this.

 

They most all think their bullies are FAR superior to the real deal.I've learned not to even talk to these people about dogs,they never learn.

 

seems to me that size and weight will vary in any dog breed some small and some will be bigger if you breed small to small then you ll get small, same with breeding to bigger dogs .

 

Anytime anyone breeds for size, appearance, etc. they are NOT preserving the breed in any form.

 

I've seen a lot of different AMBullies... Some looked like Mastiffs, others, the "short n' wide" look like English Bulldogs with large, exaggerated, pit bull headpieces on them. Others still have these mammoth necks on them, the kind of neck you'd find on a collegiate rugby player. And then there's the dogs coming out of Iron Cross... 120 lbs. 28 inch head... He still calls his dogs "pit bulls", I believe. They look like Italian Mastiffs, to me.

Anyway...

I can sit here at the keyboard and flog the "breed according to the true standard, for function and performance over looks and color" dead horse all day long. But a lot of good men and women already do that. I could bash the AMBullies and call them cripples all day long, too. But I'm not going to do that, either. I'm just going to say that these things are going to continue, as fads do, until it runs it's course and sputters out (again, as all fads eventually do). Along the way, there's bound to be collateral damage caused by jackass owners with unstable, poorly-bred dogs. It happens. Now-a-days it isn't even APBTs that are under fire in the media when accidents happen anymore; it seems like lately, whenever a dog mauls a child (a travesty regardless of the type or breed of dog) or it's owner, they always say "pit bull type dog" to describe it. I'd be willing to bet that a lot of these AMBullies, dogs which aren't even APBTs in even a rudimentary sense, have a large slice of their own in the "Dog Attack Statistics Pie Chart". And they get lumped in, with "pit bulls"... It is up to the fanciers of the true APBT to manage and handle their dogs properly and carefully, and continue to steward the breed, do what they can to fight BSL, and make sure that after the fad has waned, after the poor progeny of said fad have gone the way of the Dodo Bird (and they will), we still have stable, strong, trustworthy APBTs with us.

They pose with their dogs in front of Escalades with chrome dub rims... fine. We keep ours on a short lead, we socialize them, teach our children how to properly handle themselves around them and we make sure to handle them responsibly. And we oughtn't waste time talking to the AMBully fanatics, they're like a common cold. You can't cure it, but if you let it run its course, it will, eventually, leave your system.

Just my opinion on it. I'm still learning.

 

I'm with you on this. Let them have theirs, and keep ours in check. Simple. Fighting and screaming rarely changes minds on a subject. I feel that as long as we're accurate, consistent and respectful with our information, people will listen. Personally I encourage American Bully people to praise and present their dogs as American Bullies. I wish I could do more to encourage them to be honest and proud of their peds so that there are fewer misunderstandings and mistakes made with Pit Bull lines and perspective "breed" owners. They should be able to say it loud "got a pit mutt and I'm proud." And I, for one, am happy to help them shout.

As for their part of the dog attack pie chart,...who knows. With all the bandogs, bull boxers and just badly bred and worse treated crazy-assed dogs out there it's like trying to ascertain the percentage piss to pooh in a porta-potty...it don't matter and it all stinks.

 

No point in educating most bully people kno matter how nice you tell them the differences between your dogs they always get ass hurt or defenseful of their dogs by saying really dumb shit.

I know here in Ca its all about bullies the true Pit Bull Terriers are the minority and its gonna keep gettin worse. I dont mind it id rather be among the few that preserve the breed and not destroy it. Its not about money them days are gone bully folks see nothin but money even in their fat dogs

 

Something very simular happened to the Bulldog. The bulldog wasn't as big as it is now, nor did it have those druling jowles. Then this guy Johnson decided he would breed them larger and you get what most folks call the america bulldog today. There are still normal american bulldogs around but far less common than the johnson types. I like the traditional american bulldog far better, it kinda looks like a larger yet still athletic pitbull imho.

Its just happening to the APBT now but diffrently because with us the american bully is at least being called out as a new and diffrent breed. It does have a lot of pitbul in it from what I have read and I suspect it is the bad boy version of a labradoodle or whatever. Esclades and chrome rims was perfect

In 10 years will we be hearing about the american bully? Probably but what isn't drama when it comes to pitbulls? Yeck we talk about color and it gets passionate...

 

There are some damn good posts in this thread.

I agree that this bully thing is a fad and I also agree that it is all about the money.
But what frustrates me is that "these" people refuse to educate them selves about what a TRUE American Pit Bull Terrier is! Then when you try to educate them with literary facts; they still try to say that there 120 lb pig is an apbt.
Look, call it a damn gerbal for all I care, just don't call an apbt!

This really drives me crazy.

Then here in The Bahamas guys are so influenced by America and all they see over there are these big dam so called pits.
If there was no such thing as the internet, there would still be majority of true apbt here. But, the internet give people such easy access to the rest of the world and when guys here see some one in America selling bully puppies on their web site for $2000.00; then they want to follow suit.
The internet is the DEVIL.

 

You all made some very good points but I wish people wouldn't generalize. Not all Bully owners are like that. I know quite a few that have nothing but the utmost respect for the APBT and know exactly what they have on the end of their leash, nothing more, nothing less.
The ones that believe that a Bully is superior to a true APBT are complete idiots in the first place and shouldn't own a dog of any breed period. That's the ones that are in it for the Benjamins and they have absolutely no clue about dog care besides keeping a dog locked in a kennel 24/7 only to take them out when a breeding is about to go down.
I know it is frustrating but the only way to remedy the problem is to educate folks in a respectful manner. Unfortunately, even for the Bully crowd, those idiots that breed for money are not only ruining the image of the APBT but they are also adding to the sh!tpile of unhealthy and unsound dogs in the Bully community. There is something seriously wrong with a person that thinks easty westy feet, bowed legs, high rears, cherry eye and overbites are good looking.

 

The above words are SO true. I mean WTF is that easty westy thing all about! And these guys think this looks good!
Man, then they have the heart to say that these dogs are funtional!? Pure bs!
I have litterally seen some of these pigs run for 2-5 minutes and nearly pass out from exhaustion! How the hell is that functional.

One poster said that there are Am Bully owners that know whats at the end of their lease; man I wish I could run into one here in the Bahamas.

It is so bad that when I'm walking my dogs and I tell people that they are apbt; some laugh, some scorn, and some say to me "that aint no pit".
The reason why I get these reactions are because my dogs weigh between 30lbs (the smallest) to 50 lbs (the biggest). If it is not 90lbs or over; then in their opinion its not a pit. Thats what it has come too and it is sooooooo pathetic.

 

I have found that the BEST was for me to educate folks is to walk a calm, friendly, well-mannered dog around the neighborhood.

When she sees people, she wags her tail and smiles, and I ask them if they'd like to come and pet my dog, and give her a treat. They always remark about how well-behaved she is, and I explain to them everything that she and I do, to keep her in that well-behaved state.

I also explain to them, as of recently, how important it is to look at dogs as individuals. I don't bother getting into the whole "Bandog/AMBully/APBT" subject, instead, I explain to them that just because my dog, who is, in all probability an APBT (I don't have papers on her, she could be a staffieXpit) is friendly, gentle with their kids and an all-around pleasant dog, another dog they meet might not be; this isn't a blight on the breed of course, as, my dog has that natural "people friendliness" so typical of the APBT, and I've done EVERYTHING I can to ensure that it stays that way. But others might not, and I make sure to impress that upon them.

When we walk away, they have the mindset "There's a friendly, well-behaved pit bull in the neighborhood, and her master can control her. I don't need to worry about her, or him. These dogs REALLY CAN live peacefully around us, but it's a two-way street."

And it seems to work. One guy, in my neighborhood works for Animal Control. He knows Begonia, and so do his kids, they say hi to us, and stop to pet her any time we walk by and they're out in the yard playing ball or whatever.

Now, here's the thing, at least, as I see it.

The problems here, are that:

1. people humanize dogs
2. people fail to look at dogs as individuals
3. people don't see APBT's for what they truly are (and THAT is complicated)

We should NEVER humanize a dog. A dog is a dog.

People don't look at "dogs as dogs" and they certainly don't look at APBTs as dogs, as evidenced in the shelter situation. To Animal Control, and shelters, in the majority of cases, "Dogs get sheltered and they get a chance at getting adopted. Pit Bulls get put to sleep, immediately, usually without a temperament test." Now, it gets complicated ... A lot of dogmen out there will say "A APBT is NOT 'just another dog'" and they're correct.

The problem is, the majority of common people out there (anybody who isn't a true fancier or true dogman/woman), should NOT have that perspective, because they don't look at it properly. To them, the pit bull isn't a dog, it is a "vicious animal bred and trained to kil" no no no ... to a dogman, I believe they see it as "A dog is a dog, and an APBT is a dog, only, more-so."

But that's just my observation.

Now, take that "The pit bull isn't a dog, it's a vicious animal bred to kill" mentality and put it with what we have in yards and homes now-a-days, American Bullies, Presa Canarios, Corsos, etc. ... In the eyes of "everybody else" these are ALL pit bull type dogs. If an AMBully escapes his yard, mauls a kid, it's in the paper and on the news that "A pit bull type dog mauled a kid." ... and nobody hears anything but "Pit Bull .. mauls a kid." every. single. time.

I believe that we need to look at each dog as an individual. There are a lot of good folks on this board who raise good dogs. And if I met you, on the street, and saw your dog(s) I'd ask "Hello, I'm Harv and your dog is very handsome, may I pet him and give him a treat?" and if the answer was "No.", no problem. If the answer was yes, I'd calmly meet the dog, and if his body language was welcoming, I'd give him a treat, a pet on the shoulder, and maybe we could chat about bull dogs for a minute or two."

That's the way it ought to be.

Unfortunately, it isn't always like that.

The principles that I follow, which I learned from reading this website, and also, from reading dogsbite.org and coming away from that horrible site with the mentality that I NEVER want to contribute to their trafficking of human (and animal) misery, are simple:

- Keep the dog secured at all times at home.
- Give the dog AMPLE exercise, as well as a safe, humane outlet for her prey drive (chase, bite, grip n' whip)
- Give the dog AMPLE stimulation for her brain
- Be a firm, but fair, benevolent leader and watch her like a hawk at all times
- Only let her play with dogs I know, and be vigilant as, in all probability, she won't be "cold" in adulthood, or perhaps even tomorrow, so dog-with-dog play privileges are CONSTANTLY under intense scrutiny, and I'm prepared, fully, for a future where she has no interaction with dogs outside and I don't mind one bit, as, I will take people-friendliness (especially kids) over dog friendliness ANY DAY
- No time outside off-leash, period.

and it works.

People observe us, and though they might not be able to tell the difference between her and an AMBully, at least they can say "Harv down the street has a Pit and NOTHING's ever happened with her." and they can get some learning about how to meet and interact with a dog as an individual, on individual terms.

And that's my "Friday Rant" for this week.

Thanks. And this is indeed a good thread. Thanks for starting it up. And for being here; the discussions I read continue to help me tremendously.