"Gameness" A dying trait?

Re: "Gameness" A dying trait?

In a way your right there have always been scumbag types involed with bulldogs,but in the past you had a choice of who you hung around with.If you were in it for the money there was lots of folks to hang with and screw.On the other hand if you were in it for the dogs then there was honerable guys to compete with.It all depended on your morals or motives.IMO the only people that fake there dogs status are puppy peddlers or thoses that are in it for the money.I only ever cared about my dogs and how they stacked up against the honest folks.But never think there wasent gentlemen then or now,you just have to look a little harder.

 

Re: "Gameness" A dying trait?

In mexico dogfighting is practically legal!..most ppl got thier brood stock from ppl in the states so pit gameness is still alive just not as much in the US.

 

Re: "Gameness" A dying trait?

Seems that with the breeding of the Eli line things have definitly taken a turn towards the mouthier direction. Ill bet more than a few old timer was PISSED when they first went into those bear trapped black s.o.b's! Generations of game bred dogs, Vs. Iron Jaws, "snap, crackle, pop"-- pay the man. As far as the central authority goes, youve got that with the weight pull, catch dog associations. If youre hell bent on provin your dogs gameness cougars/bears and wolves are still out there. Also, events that are legalized can be taxed, have sponsors, offer employment to locals, and decrease the chance of violence associated with unorganized events. Plus it would give people more neighborhood pride and respect to know "...the baddest mofo coast to coast lives right down the street. Yup, saw him go 2hours on payperview last weekend. My boy had tickets, you can see him on the video." But this is all theory. Far be it from us to be as economicly sensible as the japanese, serbians, italians and others...

 

Re: "Gameness" A dying trait?

Well I get what you are saying on the whole thing and pretty much agree dead on the last part. But the eli stuff makes me smile yes they do have good mouth for the most part BUT eli dogs were not the only ones look at all the dogs befor eli was ever bred And one of the hardest mouthed dogs I ever seen was a line bred T-Boy dog. They have been after that SOB that can Bite threw steel have tanks for lungs and is so quick a hummingbird cant keep up for many years. YIS J

 

Re: "Gameness" A dying trait?

I agree, the Eli dogs are known for mouth but its not like there wernt dogs before the Eli dogs that couldnt bite. They just earned a well deserved reputation for being a hard mouthed line. But like most know, Eli dogs arent the only dogs that can crunch.

With the debate over the breeding of the Eli dog himself out of the question, he was bred tight Dibo. Dibo is known as one of if not the greatest producer in history and the blood behind the majority of bulldogs nowdays. So it would make good sense that Eli was a good producer when bred to other dogs of similar blood.

Plus, I prefer Eli jr. bred dogs over other Eli bred dogs. From what history has shown, that Eli jr. blood packed a lil more punch.

 

Re: "Gameness" A dying trait?

Your right just because the great paper is there doesn't mean the fire is to! Some of the best dogs i've had the privilage to be around had no paper work at all but where bred right and the people i was hanging around where older fellas and new how to breed their dogs for what they wanted.
BUT I HAVE SINCE PARTED WAYS WITH THEM!
I don't condone game testing APBT but I definetly think we shouldn't water them down until they (like you said) are nothing but a shell of what they once where.

 

Re: "Gameness" A dying trait?

You gotta be pullin my leg on that one! But if thats what was seen, Ill bite. For real though, I cant think of any family of dogs that has been more well known to have (or assumed to have) that feature (mouth).

 

Re: "Gameness" A dying trait?

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Edited by Marty**

 

Re: "Gameness" A dying trait?

I agree.

And Lethal, NO these activities do not test gameness, nor can they prove it "to the smallest degree." Gameness is not something that comes in varying stages.......a dog is either game or it's not. Period. And a true game dog is not as common as a penny on the street that many like to believe. Hell, I would believe that some people who have been in the dogs for their entire lives (& I'm not talking about someone's 22-yr-old brother) and never had a truely game dog. And that might be for a few reasons: 1) the dog was such a hard-mouthed devestating animal that he was never pushed to the brink as he always finished the match too quick or 2) he had a lot of good dogs and maybe even a great one, but not a game dog.

A dog doesn't have to win to be game. Not all the Ch.'s or even Gr. Chs. out there are "game' by true definition. But there are some losers who instead won that honour.

Although I haven't gone out lately, I do hog hunt with some of our dogs. And yes, hunting can test endurance/wind, agility, courage, and mouth, but it cannot test gameness.

Gameness is when a dog is on bottom, it's life in jeaopordy, and the dog doesn't fight to just merely stay alive, it fights to conquer....to win. It never knows it's losing. It is running and driving on heart alone. And to test this, by the true definition, is illegal. So get over it.

For all those who weight pull and whatnot with your dogs, quit using the term to describe them. You can call your dogs strong and you can call them athletic (although I've seen some overweight mastiff mutts as many a pull event), but you can never call them game. To do so is only because you want the glory you foolishly believe it will bring to you.

 

Re: "Gameness" A dying trait?

Just wanted to take issue with this a bit Jeeperino. Someone once said something to the effect "when you outlaw an activity, only outlaws will take part in said activity". No doubt shady dealings that go on now went on back then, but by the simple fact that it is now an illegal activity makes the criminal element more prominent.....by definition anyone who engages in it is a criminal. Criminal behavior attracts criminals. Not saying they weren't there before, just that the percentage of shady folks involved is higher now. Matches used to be held in the light of day for all to see, women and children were among the spectators. Now it is a clandestine activity done behind closed doors in the dark of night. Similar to the argument for protecting our second ammendment rights, if you criminalize guns, only criminals will have guns. It's simple logic my friend.

 

Re: "Gameness" A dying trait?

IMO I don’t see testing an illegal thing by the way the law is defined as my interpretation of it in my opinion... Obviously a match is, but a test is not a match, the motive is not the same, etc, etc… With that being said in the law it only describes a Match as being illegal as it is defined… does that mean that if one did it, that they would not be prosecuted… of course not… but not as DF but as Animal Cruelty… that’s where In my opinion testing is not cruel as long as the dog always wants a part of it and YOU as the owner/handler doesn’t take it to far… As soon as the dog no longer wants it... then right at that point it becomes cruel…. That is how my mind sees things, might be wrong in some peoples view but its how I can feel that’s it’s not wrong in today’s laws…

I'm going to quote from the other thread

Just my Honest Opinion and ONLY an Opinion of the subject matter…

 

Re: "Gameness" A dying trait?

I'm lost with your post, RC. Are you saying that the law only outlaws set matches? But it's perfectly legal to roll your dog? :confused:

 

Re: "Gameness" A dying trait?

I didn't say it was legal.. I Said in my opinion I don't see it as breaking the Law as i interpret what is writen... but thats Just My Opinion.. they would get you on neglect or abuse... not DF

 

Re: "Gameness" A dying trait?

Its all about perspective. Marijuana is illegal, does that make an 80 yr old grandma with glaucoma a criminal for smoking it?? I guess it does. You are a criminal if u have 3 drinks in 1 hour and get behind the wheel. You are a criminal if you spank your children. You are a criminal if you cheat on your taxes. You are a criminal if you street race. You are a criminal if you have EVER broken the law, I think that makes 99% of people in America criminals.

Its very easy to throw words like outlaw and criminal around because the government has made it that way. You say everyone who participates in matching dogs is a criminal or outlaw, I disagree.

 

Re: "Gameness" A dying trait?

Man you gotta be stupid. Rolling your dog is just as illegal as fighting it, thinking about fighting your dog is illegal!!!Thats where intent comes in!..the law states that fighting two dogs for sport, monetary gain, or entertainment is illegal..rolling easily falls into 2 of those categories.

 

Re: "Gameness" A dying trait?

I don't believe for a second everyone who participates is a criminal, I know better. I'm saying it attracts the criminal element, much more so in this day and age where it is now illegal to engage in such activity. By definition, yes we are all outlaws......but some folks really are no good, criminally insane if you will....and they turn up wherever illegal activities take place. And if it's just a minor infraction taking place, like partaking in some herbal remedies......the real criminal element becomes part of that and blows up the spot eventually.

 

Re: "Gameness" A dying trait?

intent?? Did you seriously just say intent?!?!?! Are you the thought police? Anyone who agrees with laws based on the "intent" behind the supposed crime seems all too willing to sacrifice their freedom for the glowing promise of "safety". In the end you will have neither freedom nor safety.

"Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, yet bad people will always find a way around the laws" ~ Plato

 

Re: "Gameness" A dying trait?

im not the thought police but the HS's are! I dont agree with the laws just stated them..if it were up to me it would be illegal not to fight your dog.

 

Re: "Gameness" A dying trait?

:eek: LMAO!!

 

Re: "Gameness" A dying trait?

First of all let me say this the difference between an APBT, and any other breed of dog is "Gameness". All of the other traits like mouth, endurance, structure etc. is fine, but the true essence of an APBT is "Gameness". There is only but one way to truely test an APBT "Gameness", an its not bull bating, or wild hog hunting. In eather case none of the animal are in top condition so how can we say this is a true test of "Gameness"?

Second there are just as many game APBT today as there were in the past; the differences is a quality breeder isn't going to sell a fanizer what they persive as a game APBT to a fanizer to ruin. To many individuals are breeding for color, size, etc. and not for "Gameness". If we could limit all breeder too only two litters a year we would have a much better APBT "seletive breeding" is the key. Most quality breeders will sell you an APBT, but not "The APBT" cause they want there best dog to go where they belong. Keep searching let me tell you there are very good APBT out there you just need to know where to look.