AmStaff Blood?

A Bulldog is a Bulldog for the many characteristics, traits, tools, etc which he brings to the table. If his blood was infused with "AmStaff blood," it could make the dog better or worse off. If he comes to the game with all the right gear on......than nobody with a brain between their ears can discount the individual dog. Mostly, though, the infusion of what most would deem "Staff blood" will do harm to the characteristics of the offspring for someone breeding for game-dog purposes.

 

Anyone have any info on the bodzianowski dogs and their breeder.

 

A little info on Bodzinowski, hope this helps you.

Tacoma by Harold Card
I got my first Amstaff in 1978. Before this time I bred functional English Bulldogs that were hell on wheels, and would actually pull down a cow, horse or bull, but had all the health problems of the modern English Bulldogs. In the late seventies, I became aware of a man who had an AKC show dog that had beaten three of Jack Kelly's ( the owner of the Sporting Dog Journel,a dog fighting magazine) in pit contests. This dog, Ironman's KO, was an X-pert bred AmStaff who had beaten the famous show dog, Ch. X-pert Sligo McCarthy twice for best of breed the only two times he was shown, and had won his pit championship.KO was inbred on X-pert Black Susie who was a pure Tacoma bitch obtained by Cliff Ormsby from Pat Bodzinowski, the well known dog fighter from the Chicago area who had Storklind kennels.
I got several of KO's offspring and inbred them for five years. Realizing that KO got his type and temperament from the Tacoma blood, I searched the country for the last of the Tacoma, and in 1984 was fortunate to find a very inbred Storklind bitch, Card's Tacoma Tornado, in Florida from Marsha Woods, inbred on Embry's Watch-It, a pure Storklind/Tacoma dog. At the same time, Wayne Brown from the Dallas area of Texas, agreed to breed his 3/4 Tacoma male Brown's Tacoma Chief, to his 1/2 Tacoma female, Brown's Tacoma Storm, and sold me a male from this breeding, Card's Tacoma Jake. I bred Jake to Tornado, twice, and got six pups the first breeding and one the second. Card's Tacoma Rose was kept from the first breeding, and Card's Tacoma Hurricane was kept from the second.
Tornado was bred later to a double bred KO male that I had selected, but the breedings never took, and the KO blood is now extinct. Rose was sold to Bob Schaeffer in Indiana who bred her to his Schaeffer's Hello Chopper, the only AKC dog to ever win a ADBA pitbull Championship title. Chopper was a blend of Hercules of Harwyn blood and Sooner. A daughter of Rose and Chopper was M&M's Bad Banchee who was a three time pit winner. She was bred back to Brown's Tacoma Chief to produce Tacoma Ivory Lace, which I obtained to use in my breeding program. Hurricane, the male I kept, was a very hard biting game dog. He would bite a moving cars tire and explode it while it was going past!
All of the dogs in my yard have his blood. In the early 90's, David Kealaher in Idaho offered me Dellies Mithril North Star, a female out of Ch Mithril Dellies Ruby City, (a half Tacoma bitch out of Dellie-Woods Old Soldier who was a littermate to my Card's Tacoma Tornado,)and Ch Logues White Rock Ox Bomber ( Ch. White Rock Jet Bomber X Brown's Tacoma Storm). Hurricane bred to Tacoma Ivory Lace and to Dellies Mithril North Star is the basic foundation of my current blood. The blood in my yard is about 60-70% Tacoma with the rest a blend of Rolls, Hercules of Harwyn, and X-pert. The original Tacoma was started by Charles Doyle in Indiana and was a blend of Feeley,Tudor's Black Jack, and Tacoma Jack.
He later added in the 16 time pit winner Corvino's Braddock. After his death, his dogs were stolen from his yard at his funeral, but Mike Ferris had a few obtained before Doyle's death. He sold several to Pat Bodzianowski who fought them using false Corvino papers so no one would know of the blood of the dogs he was using. after Pat went to prison for dogfighting, the blood was almost extinct until myself, Carla Restivo, and Bert Rodrigues in Illinois started to resurrect it. The current Tacoma has three major types. The Feeley type, the Hercules type, and the Tacoma type. The Feeley and the Tacoma types are typical of the Tacoma dogs produced until the 1970's when the first outcrosses were made. Ch. Hercules of Harwyn entered into so many of the outcrosses that his type is stamped into the genepool.
The Feeley type is a smaller, usually red, dog that looks much like Tudor's Dibo, who was also a Feeley dog. The Tacoma type is a larger, taller, big headed wide chested type that is very athletic. The Hercules type has a short back, lower legs, cobby body with a shorter face and straight stifles and front. Most of the Tacoma dogs are highly dog aggressive and there are many that are highly protective of their owners and family. One of my favorites, Card's Tacoma Swinging Dick, is the only AmStaff in the US to get a French Ring Brevet.
The modern Tacoma dogs are highly intelligent and very willing to work, but because of the dog aggressiveness shouldn't be in a show ring or Obedience ring. My current male, Card and Maio's Tacoma 100 Proof, is not as dog aggressive as most I've had, so I'm going to try him this summer in AKC competition. Of the old Tacoma dogs, Tacoma Jack's Replica, Ch. Tacoma Dispatcher 1 CH. Tacoma Dispatcher 2, Ch. Tacoma All-A-Blaze, Doyle's American Gangbuster, and Storklinds Otis would be my favorites. My own favorites from my breeding would be Card's Tacoma Hurricane, Card's Tacoma Bandit, Card's Tacoma Knight Templar, Card's Tacoma Soldier and Card's Tacoma Swinging Dick for males and Card's Tacoma Ginger and Card's Tacoma Pride of Joliet for females.

Harold

 

cant say too much cause it can get people in trouble but lets just say the only thing thats amstaff in some of those yards is the AKC stamp on their papers. not too many people know about that blood and i hope it stays that way. here is a link where that article is from http://lil.amstaff.free.fr/tacoma.htm

 

FWIIW;
This talk about game Amstaffs have to be commented imo.
This is what moneyhungry peddlers of bad mixbred dogs talk about all the time to peddle their inferior bastards endangering the APBT breed and gets many people in tradegies and unhappieness. The Amstaffs are "game", the one that have "working lines way back" somewhere in their handwritten pedigree, it´s a "unique" dog, and so on etc.

I don´t know what someone mean when they say dog agressive. There are many dog agressive dogs of different breeds. They don´t have to be pitbulls, they don´t even have to be Amstaffs, it could be a Cocker Spaniel or anything who are agressive or "fight crazy". And what is more, there are and have been many _rough dog who could "win" this and that contest or show. That does´nt nessecarily mean the dog have gameness. Sounds a bit sometimes it is very easy to get a dog with gameness. It is not, at least not with interference with show blood.


I do not know if that is the case with these Amstaff blodlines but i do know that "agressiveness-dog agressivenes" is nothing I personally see as something of an own value, people who reads this thread could get the impression that it is the same as a dog to have any kind of gameness. It is not according to my insignificant opinion. I am no expert of gameness, but I have however seen a whole lot of how some peoples breed and sell business with these dogs works, and what the result is. Any Amstaff-pitbull mix sold to someone who "wants a tough, brave" dog is a nail in the coffin of the APBT breed imo.

At least I personally have never met an Amstaff/pitbull or Amstaff who could be said to have been typical for the APBT breed. Most of them seem to me to to have several atypical behaviours. They are the main part of the overproduction of dogs of this type and the source of the breeds situation today. So, to talk about game and gameness without reservations when we talk about Amstaff and mixes... hm...

Not that I think anyone in this thread have any intentions to advertise for Amstaffsmixes but nevertheles; got to be said considering the situation of the APBT breed today and many are reading this and takes advantage of everything they can find.

These bloodlines talked about here I think have no significance whatsoever in a dog sold today, at least not to the general public.

Anyway I don´t see why anyone would want to breed "game" Amstaffs. An amstaff is in my opinion confirmation show dogs. That is what makes him an Amstaff. An APBT is not; that is what makes him an APBT.

Mixes betwen them are mixes, not pitbulls, not Amstaffs. Unfortunately not always usable even as housedogs, sorry to say. Nothing personal against them though.

Edit:
not my native language so I edit some to make it easier to read.

 

good post K, just to clear something up im not for mixing of the 2 breeds if these bloodlines are here already and some people like them for shows and weightpull then let them be, no one is claiming they are game anymore. as far as the tacoma stuff lets just call them a "working" amstaff.
my flavor is and will always be true working gamedogs! they are the ultimate athletes and warriors! enough said already on these damn amstaffs and pitterstaffs lets talk about true gamedogs now

 

yeah, whats up with all the halfbreed threads?

 

Exactly!!! you hit the nail on the head............................

never judge a dog by papers, even dogs that are bred from proven stock dont turn-out. Selective breeding my friend......my .02

 

nice thread there.. bump for others to read

 

I THINK IT MAKES NO LESS OF A DOG HOWEVER I also think the chances of the dog breeding true are decresed drasticly in most but not all cases.

 

Its a widely accepted theory/rumor/story or what have you that Carver was known to cross into some staff blood that was a few generations seperated from the pit into his program...

 

My guess would be because it happens quite often by purpose and by accadent and a lot of these dogs find there way one way or another on working yards and in some cases the dogs actualy work. A lot of folxs who say judge a dog not the pappers are quick as hell to judge a dog off pappers if there is staff blood anywhere in the ped. Now don't get me wrongI won't be out looking for staff /apbt crosses to use as a cornerstone of my breeding program only because I would always question said dogs ability to reproduce dogs like its self consistantly.....Beter than me have done so thow...Gary Hammonds being one.. He started his program with cold dogs , staffs , what yall would call pitter pats scatterbred dogs and in some casees untoutched dogs and pups.. But he was a dogman and went threw there offspring properly and put them in working hands and built a hell of a family of dogs that have stood the test of time ....More than one way to skin a cat ...All I know is I have personaly seen a eli/ Boogieman dog and a eli/ scaterbred dog (With staffs scattered threwout ped) That I believe ANYONE reading this would be proud to own...