APBT's and Bite Sports.....

How do you all feel about ABPT's and bite sports, such as Schutzhund and PSA? I read rocksteads reply to the post about Hybrid American Bulldogs and I agree with a lot that was said.

These sports are about obedience and control over your dog not sending your dog to attack. Not everydog, in fact most dogs, don't have what it takes to endure this type of training. Couldn't putting more APBT's in to these sports promote a better image of the breed?

Just wondering what everyone thinks about this.

Puregame

 

“Couldn't putting more APBT's in to these sports promote a better image of the breed?”<O:p</O:p

Most will only remember the biting/attacking of the “pit”. Allot of people do not truly realize the amount of dedication, training, and work it takes for these types of sports. With that being said I personally do not think the APBT should be used in any type of man work. The pit was/has not been bred nor designed for these types of sports. They are not bred for man work nor should they be, human aggression is not a desirable trait with these dogs. If someone wants to do these types of sport activities with their dogs then get a breed that has been bred for it.

 

but techincally the sport of Schutzhund isnt about being human aggressive. Everyone makes it seem like you are teaching the dog to just be bite crazy or go after everyone in site, which is highly untrue. " Guard dog and schutzhund dogs are all different.. a guard dog guards property, cattle, sheep, humans while a schutzhund dog is a dog that serves its master (usually police /militarty) A watchdog can be any dog that barks ..



In fact, I personally think that the APBT makes a better Schutzhund dog than alot of breeds because of its uncanny ability to "comprehend" right from wrong, bad from good The only down fall and what is probably the most scary part and why these dogs arent used more is that once they are turned on, its hard to turn them off!! And thats not saying that if the bite one person they are going to turn around and bite everyone..no..its just when they grab the "bad guy" its much harder to call them off!! Just think of the game dog in the pit..yes, animal aggression / human aggression are 2 seperate things ..but in schutzhund you are not teaching the dog to kill ..you are only supposed to teach the dog to take down and hold a person ..not maul or go crazy. And its because of the pit bull temperment ..confidence, loyalty to master and family, excellent with strangers ( meaning the police could use them in large crowds without worries) that I dont see a well bred, well trained dog going off and biting everyone in sight.


But I think it would take a dedicated induvidual to develop a particular line and weed out some traits here and there.. and I dont think it is for every APBT or owner. Like said ..it takes alot of experience and yes..I'm not a big fan of them showing off all the bite work or just any joe blow doing it.. but the occasional APBT doing police work? What a stable dog that would be.

 

I think the both of you have excellent points. I think that we all should stand for what we believe in as long as its a mature decision. To me this is a good topic that I have never seen posted here.

 

“but techincally the sport of Schutzhund isnt about being human aggressive.”
Technically you are teaching the dog to attack a decoy (human) on command albeit under complete control. Nonetheless you are training a dog to willingly attack a human, which this breed was never intended to do nor should do.<O:p</O:p

“Guard dog and schutzhund dogs are all different”
True, which is why allot of Schutzhund dogs make useless guard dogs.<O:p</O:p

“In fact, I personally think that the APBT makes a better Schutzhund dog than alot of breeds because of its uncanny ability to "comprehend" right from wrong, bad from good”
Just because the breed might excel at it doesn’t necessarily mean that it should be used.<O:p</O:p

“The only down fall and what is probably the most scary part and why these dogs arent used more is that once they are turned on, its hard to turn them off!!”
Yes, their OUT does suck.<O:p</O:p

“its just when they grab the "bad guy" its much harder to call them off!!”
They are stubbornly unyielding as the name implies. Bulldog<O:p</O:p

“Just think of the game dog in the pit..yes, animal aggression / human aggression are 2 seperate things”
And NEVER should they be mixed!<O:p</O:p

“but in schutzhund you are not teaching the dog to kill ..you are only supposed to teach the dog to take down and hold a person ..not maul or go crazy.”
True…but then you are looking at a totally different set of breeding criteria’s with will be taking the dog further away from it roots, which has made this dog such a desirable animal to be around.<O:p</O:p

“And its because of the pit bull temperment ..confidence, loyalty to master and family, excellent with strangers”
Why do you suppose that is? Because of strict breeding standards, which put the GAMENESS, number one priority and frowns upon human aggression.<O:p</O:p

“But I think it would take a dedicated induvidual to develop a particular line and weed out some traits here and there”
It would, but in the end they would only have the shell of a real bulldog. Nothing more.<O:p</O:p

“but the occasional APBT doing police work? What a stable dog that would be.”
Stable yes, a bulldog most likely not.<O:p</O:p

<O:p

 

There have been some very good points made so far. I'd like to here some other opinions on this too. To me this is a very interesting topic. Many people that now own APBT's are getting or trying to get these dogs protection trained.

Thanks to everyone that has replied so far.

puregame

 

I am dead against teaching an APBT to bite a human...wrong breed to do this with!!!
BB

 

You're right. I definetely think this is the wrong breed to do that type of training, but I give props to anyone who does it properly and is good at it.

 

BB I agree...game dogs should not be used for this type work, even though they would out shine any other breed in any type work. They already have a bad enough rap..so let's leave this type work to some other breed!

 

Not too often do I agree with BB but this time Im in total agreement no way what so ever.

 

i belief they would excel but i agree with bb also.

 

LOL why thanks Gator, you know I love you LMAO
BB

 

I just have one last question. Are you saying APBT's as a breed or just game dogs. What about dogs like camirinos Buster Joe, who has been the foundation for a very successful working line, Dangerzone, and a well title dog himself?

Thanks again everyone.

puregame

 

APBT's Were Bred To Be Game As Well As Working Dogs , Most Bloodlines Are Just Bred To Do Different Things, One Reason Alot Of People Cross Breed , Take A Bloodline Known For Hardworking and A Bloodline Known For A Good And Hard Bite Take That Condition Him Right Test Him Test Him See If He's Worthy Enough To Produce , Breed Him With Something With The Sam Bloonline Rather The Both Be redboy/jeep , eli/carver , bolio/termite Vandicator/Zebo Make Sure The Male And Bitch Have Same Bloodline , Then Take His Off Springs And Most Likely The Off Springs Will Be Alot Better. I'm Still Learning So Someone Else Might Have A Better Opinion Than Mines

 

And I Must Agree. I Have Just Obtained 3 Dangerzone Pups And They Love To Work. Good Bloodline. Cross It With Something That Has Been Known To Hit The Ground Good And You Might Get Some Good Things Out Of It.

 

Another bumpy bumpy.....

 

I disagree to the extent that I believe Shutzhund dogs are trained to bite a sleeve, not people and pitbulls can be great at this sport.

I also think that SAR, Agility, Shutzhund, Hog Hunting and other sports that require high intelligence and athletic ability are good sports for the APBT to participate in.

The expectation of the dogs behavior in all of these sports are diffrent for example, even if the guy was wearing a sleeve, a SAR dog can't be biting him. In none of these situations is dog agressiveness going to be a good thing and at the same time while hog hunting, aggression toward the hog is definatly required. The pitbull is able to excell in all these sports and under all these circumstances.

Of course the pit owner will have to work a bit harder in some cases than the owner of other breeds but like thier dogs, pit owners typically have that little extra in them.

 

I did some Sch training with one of my dogs. He wasn't aggressive towards the person, he just got as fired up about the sleeve as he does with a flirtpole or springpole. He even showed his good temperament when the decoy/trainer said that he was now turned on and that if he saw him again, he would try to bite him, but instead he was all wags and smiles. I'm sure that there are some more serious dogs in the sport of any breed. But a lot of modern Sch training is more focused on focusing prey drive with the dogs of all breeds, rather than aggressiveness.

 

there is a big difference between a schutzhund dog and a personal protection dog. Schutzhund is a dog sport that is based on prey drive, not defense drive and civil aggression as in a pers. protection dog. I think a gamebred apbt would do excellent at schutzhund, performance kennels can vouch for this.

 

Thanks and yes my gamebred APBT's are doing well in the sport so far. It takes a lot of training to have the control that is required in this sport. I also do Agility, Rally, Obedience (UKC), weight pull, and both of my Sch APBT's are registered therapy dogs. It is a very common mis-perception that a Sch dog is based out of pure aggression.