Sbt = Apbt

Hi all,

If someone was to get a real Staffordshire Bull terrier to the states, not the show ones but the correct ones that are still being worked, would this be a good cross for an APBT. I understand that alot of people feel that the APBT of today came from the Staffie Bull but would people accept this dog to be an APBT, or would they frown upon it. Has it ever been done. I know I read somewhere on here that they are shipping APBTs to Europe and passing them off as SBTs. Also, since the ADBA recognizes an AKC registered Amstaff as an APBT, letting you register them as an APBT with an asteric next to the name of the dog in the pedigree, shouldn't they also do it for the SBT of Europe?

-thanks a bunch

 

I would not recoment to mix a staff with an apbt.

 

Why is that?

And just to make things clear, I'm talking about the Staffordshire Bull Terrier not the American Staffordshire Terrier.

 

Why? What would be your reason for doing a breeding like this? The APBT breed has went through enough modifications and certaintly doesn't need anymore. I wouldn't consider. JMO

 

No reason at all. I'm just wondering why I've never heard of it being done. Why no one has ever bred back to a dog imported from Europe since that is where our dogs come from.

When you say the APBT breed has went through enough modifications, what do you mean by that? If anything breeding back to a SBT would be breeding back to our dogs original form.

 

Check out old SDJ's from the 70's.

There were several SBT's shown with success.

There are plenty of working ones here now, just a matter of knowing who keeps them true to form.

 

Thanks stillwater.

Now would YOU ever breed back to an SBT? I mean if you found a real exceptional one and bred an APBT back to an SBT would you consider the pups APBT? Do you know anyone that's ever done this? I had the question above regarding if the ADBA would register, but they already told me themselves that they wouldn't even though they will register Amstaffs.

I'm thinking since you said that there were some shown in the 70's, that if anyone did a breeding, then those pups must have had hung papers.

 

well in my opinion there is really no need to cross anything into a pit.just keep it pure and simple.the genes that have been bred into these dogs for so long is what made them the dogs they are today.to justify what i am saying just take a look at your ''blue pitbulls'' that is the direct result of expermenting by crossing diffrent things into our breed.even though the staff is considered the show counter part of our breed it is still a diffrent breed in my opinion,because it was bred for diffrent reasons than ours was.and the stb is diffrent again even though it was bred for the same thing ours were bred for.so in my opinion keep pits with pits.

 

Taking an STB to an APBT would give you a mutt IMO. They are not the same breed and have different standards. Why would anyone want to do that?

 

See I was talking about a true standard SBT and I thought those dogs is what we got our dogs from of Today. Since mostly everyone here feels that the only true APBT is the working one, and not the show Staffs or UKC show dogs, then I was thinking that the SBT is the same as our dogs.

You look far enough on the peds and you see dogs that say they were bred in england and imported and so, why not try and breed back to the source.

You guys would consider that a mutt?

 

please dont do it.

I mean hell with this logic it would be ok for people to start "breeding" with monkeys.

We dont need anymore morally inept BYB's

 

I was never planning to do it, just wondering if it was never done and why? I guess most people believe that the two are different breeds when I think they are the same.

You, semo, can start interbreeding with monkeys if you want. Go ahead knock yourself out

 

200 years ago they were the same dog....thats alot of time to evolve on diffrent soil. Theoretically, the "English Bulldog" comes off the original "bulldogs" (APBT looking) and a pug....so by your way of thinking, breeding a English Bulldog to a pug or APBT, wouldnt make a mutt, I disagree.

 

What could you gain from a breeding like that? Introducing Pit into Staff blood might help get better Staffs (working) but not the other way around. In what way would the Staff improve the Pit? I know you're not planning on it but I hope no one ever does because in my book they will be mutts.

 

I disagree also, the SBT doesn't have pug in them and no one is talking about breeding an English bulldog to an APBT. That is not my way of thinking.


So now I know everyones feeling towards the topic and why it probably hasn't been done much... 100 or so years have made them different breeds. Even though no other type of dog has been introduce their blood and they are still being bred to standard for the same thing they were bred for 100 years ago.

I understand why people feel that Amstaffs and APBTs are now different breeds but can someone else explain to me with good reason why the SBT and APBT would be different breeds today JUST because they are in different soil?

And to reiterate, I don't breed, ever have, or plan to in the future. I just want to learn what the more knowledgable people that have been into these dogs for much longer than me feel about this topic, and why.

 

It is more apt. to say they are bred for a different result and temperment. Not so much because of geographical reasons but that they have been breed apart and to different standards for a great many years. In the end we have two different dogs. They just look sort of similar. Sort of any way.

 

Thanks for the response Attila.

Could you explain how they have been bred for a different result and temperment?

 

I just spent a good hour on this post only to find I'm not logged in...I am gunna keep it short

I know a guy who has done this cross with what he said are "tight psycho dogs"...He knows of only a few others keeping tried and true irish and english stock.I dont know much else. I too am interested in this breed

Most if not (nearly) all of todays working staffys are hunting dogs, not game dogs.

Old match report...



..."Psycho VS Stormer"

"A match that took place in the mid 80's in Ireland

The agreed weight was 43lbs. Some £6,000.00 is claimed to have been staked on the match; being at the time the

largest sum placed on such an event anywhere in the U.K.

The match was reported in both publications covering such events; THE SPORTING DOG JOURNAL/U.S.A and

PIT BULL NEWS/U.K.

Psycho was the first to weigh in; at forty one and a quarter lbs, followed by Stormer at forty two and a half lbs.

Psycho was the slightly taller of the two ... ten minutes later handlers are in the pit, with their dogs ready-to go ...... the referee called ''pit'', and when released Psycho shot straight across to meet Stormer who turned away ... when Psycho hit him he went into battle in earnest! The turn had been called and soon as the dogs were out of holds, a pick-up was allowed. The atmosphere was electric ... the Irish supporters were convinced they were seeing a cur ... that Stormer would quit ... five minutes gone and both dogs were working hard, trying to gain the upper hand ; Psycho looking for the legs and chest, Stormer holding him out.

At eleven minutes the dogs came loose; Psycho's handler got a handle on Psycho ... Stormer was to run his scratch, and he shot across the pit knocking the white dog into the corner. The English crowd cheered and on went the match ... another handle a few minutes later, and across went Psycho in fine style. Twenty minutes gone and Stormer is looking the the stronger dog. He had taken a chest hold and was shaking it out, while Psycho was

working hard to get him off. By the half-hour mark it had become a scratching match ... both dogs had run three each

At the 33 minute mark Stormer ran his fourth, this time taking Psycho straight out of his handlers hands - straight into the pit wall; not doing too badly for a cur . Stormer was getting on top by the 40 minute mark, scratching harder than ever ... Psycho doing his best to even things up, coming to the top occasionally, but Stormer was doing the damage. At 48 minutes both dogs had run 6 each, Stormer had a muzzle hold and was working it hard ... Psycho had him off at 54 minutes and his handler got in for a handle with Psycho to go; On the command ''Pit'' Psycho hesitated momentarily before taking the fight straight to Stormer. There was a rousing cheer from his supporters, but the fight was now slipping away from him. Stormer had stepped up a gear and seemed to sense the end was near.

From 55 minutes to the hour mark Stormer did it all, but Psycho never quit. At an hour and one minute Stormer ran his 8th scratch and was on a down dog as he hit and folded Psycho into his corner. At 1.03 a handle for Psycho to go is made, looking very tired his owner very sportingly picked him up, thereby conceding the match; it was won and lost in a very sporting manner, a shame that in the end one of these fine animals had to lose . After the match the referee, American Pit Bull breeder Boston Blackie, is reported to have said about Psycho ''If I was to have one of these, I'd have one out of him.'' "


I'll add more later. I've spent alot of time tracking down info about these dogs off and on the net.

jb<!-- / message --><!-- edit note -->