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what do you think?

Discussion in 'Dog Discussion' started by the.peon, Mar 3, 2012.

  1. elifan

    elifan Big Dog

    Just get one of those kangels(turkish shepards) you dont even have to train it the sheer size is intimidating
     
  2. doginhold

    doginhold Top Dog

    First of all bamaman,

    the dog is on his spot, his ground and there´s really not that much pressure put on him!
    I´d like to see a comparison in strange surroundings, not backed up by his chain and a little more put on the dog!
    The stuff shown in the video is just rough playing!

    The catch was nice, no doubt about that!


    As for the guard dog / attack trained dog.......
    well you people probably didn´t get my point!
    First, there are many dogs just barking their heads off......and if you enter are too embarrassed to even attack you with half hearted action! Second the dog has to get to know the tricks of the trade as refusing food by strangers or laid on the ground to disable the guard dog! Third he has to know what he has to do once someone stepping in and as within us humans it would be better if he had a decent training on him than without!


    As for the Dobermann no, the quality didn´t increase it still decreases today!
    Simple as that!
    Dobermanns suffer from Hip, Elbow, Spinal, Cancer, Cardio physically!
    Mentally they lack drive, aren´t resistant to pressure don´t have enough in them to compete at a serious level!

    Again that´s my livingroom, so I know what I´m speaking of!
     
  3. doginhold

    doginhold Top Dog

    As for heat......
    What does protect you from cold does protect you from heat also!
    If the dog is in good shape and not fat and used to the climate there´s no need to worry!
    Seen some nice Presa Canario lately that did good!
    Also you guys have the Bandog! Also a breed to consider!
     
  4. doginhold

    doginhold Top Dog

    As for the heat!
    You also can consider a working type Bullterrier!
    Up till the 2000 we had boatloads of dead serious working Bullterriers that gave perfect guard and protection dogs!
    After 4 years of complete BSL all over germany it´s now allowed to breed and keep them in some parts of germany!
    There´s a club that tries to get back to that point pre 2000!
    Take a look!!!!!!
    www.bullterrierclub97.de
    Maybe some stuff on the page won´t work and remember these dogs are what is left from long gone days!
    But they do a tremendous job! The dogs dispalyed there are what we consider low to average stuff, we had far better dogs in the past but we will get back there sooner or later!
     
  5. Icepick

    Icepick Banned

    We will just have to disagree on the quality of Dobermans these days doginhold. 15 or 20 years ago, Dobermans were the rage, thus sorry breeders (huh,,, sort of like what the APBT is gong through these days). "Lack drive", well maybe the ones you have seen, but the ones I have been around are really easy to train, and thats a sign of drive in my book. Cardio, just re-read my post on my brothers Doberman that wore a path into the ground. Granted, he was a 100+ pound dog, but he would run the perimeter for 15 minute periods straight. As for intimidation, well when I went with my brother to look at the pups advertised in the local paper (not even a "professional breeder"), the pups sire met us in the driveway, when we pulled up. Something about a dog that walks right up to the drivers window, is big enough to stare you in the face while standing on all fours through the window, barking and growling loud as fuck, is a bit intimidating! Now, maybe he would have ran off if I challenged him, but I wasnt going to take the chance lol. That fits the definition of a guard dog in my book!
    Most, but not all larger breeds are prone to hip problems, so thats sort of a crap shoot.
     
  6. the.peon

    the.peon Top Dog

    You are correct I am not looking to compete with the animal, and couldn't care less about french ring sport or anything of the like. My needs are fairly simple however I still would prefer a dog bred for working. A dog that can and will stop an intruder without hesitation, while being smart and calm enough to deal with small children. Being good with other dogs isn't a concern as the others will be completely fenced in on cable runs and chain set ups. Also needs to be able to stand the texas heat without falling out in mid day.
     
  7. Know someone who is in the show dog clique. Has about 60 dogs throughout the world. Does well with his stuff. He also does not need the money. He is the one to talk to if you want a particular breed.

    He needed a watch dog for his mansion. The alarm system did not set his mind at ease. His choice was a Doberman. 3k for this well bred show pup from a friend. He would have been better suited to get a cat to be the watch dog. This female was afraid of its own shadow.

    He ends up getting another male from the same breeder for the same amount. 100 plus pounds of lap dog.
     
  8. doginhold

    doginhold Top Dog

    Icepick

    I am from Germany, the land the Dobermann originated!!!!!!
    I am into working dogs seriously and have travelled back and forth to working contests etc.!
    I even had two Dobermann males myself and know boatload of people who kept and bred them and turned their back on them totally disapointed as this is no working breed anymore!
    Dobermann are just as common as any dog can be over here!
    But if you´d have at least 2 - 3 % of real working quality of all these dogs bred and kept in germany just proofs that these dogs are gone as a working dog!
    The Dobermanns I grew up with (as my grandfather kept them and raised a litter or two a year) and get to know have been tough as nails, intelligent, drivey and fast! Ususally a Dobermann would get into action within a second and had been closely bounded to just one person!
    One of my Dobermanns was jumping the fence to my neighbour regularly just to get beat up by his Rottweiler male and The Rottweilers best buddy a Boxer male and get into action with both of them at one time! He just didn´t seem to mind at all!!!!!

    But today, there are hardly any dogs of that kind! And we do have the bigger source of material over here!!!!!!!

    The former Dobermanns could have been taken as what the todays Malinois are! But if you compare these two breeds now they can´t stand a comparison to the Malinois!

    I do love their looks but that´s all that is left!

    As for working Bullterriers there´s one breeder in Arizona:

    www.wastelandbullies.com

    just check his page!
     
  9. cliffdog

    cliffdog Top Dog

    For what it's worth I think the Doberman is doing nothing but improving here in the USA these last few years. In fact, after years of Dobermans being no longer used on the Police force, only GSDs and later Malinois, there are about 5 or 6 Police Dobermans again! Now that's only a handful and might not seem like a big deal but it shows improvement to me. I think that one day we might see a time when Dobermans are premier working dogs again thanks to a small amount of very dedicated breeders whose whole lives revolve around fixing the breed which has mostly been ruined by show and pet breeders.
     
  10. Icepick

    Icepick Banned

    Theres my point! Pay for a show dog, from a show dog breeder, dont be surprised when your pup grows up to be nothing but a show dog. Goes back to who's breeding, and what they are breeding for. Generations of nothing but confirmation champions, that were not worked, dont complain when your pup grows up with good confirmation, but will not work.
    As for temperment, my sister in law runs a daycare out of her house. No problems with the Doberman and kids in nearly 9 years. On the other hand, the Rottie I owned back in 1990 attacked my ex father in law in their first meeting lol. Maybe that should have told me something. No barking, no warning. He was leashed, and wagging his tail. My ex father in law said "Oh, he's wagging his tail, he's O.K., so go ahead and let him go." If I wouldnt have been there to pull that Rottie off him, good possibility he would have died that day! I then placed the Rottie with D.C. Police dept. who were looking for 2-3 year old people aggressive dogs, for K-9 use.
    Well, I've given my facts, and from personal experience. All I can say, is if someone is throwing down 3k for a Dobie, from a "reputable breeder", and the dog turned out to be worthless, sounds like someone would have some explaining to do to me. What was the Doberman created for again???
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doberman_Pinscher
     
  11. Actually pick, it was a close friend of his. The first was a female and of course she had some genetic issues as well. Like you said. She was advertised as a show dog and more. She was nothing. Beautiful, but not what anyone would want to defend anything.

    The male was better, but not great.
     
  12. doginhold

    doginhold Top Dog

    Thing is that I stated before that over here in germany you can´t separate conformation and work as the permition for being used as a brood is bonded to both!
    Now a Schutzhund 1 degree and a conformation degree of good is enough to breed them!
    So people tend to go the easy way and prefer to compete at conformation shows rather than at working contests and putting titles like Schutzhund 3, IPO and so on on the dogs but yet prefer a good looking show dog that has just enough to make Schutzhund 1!
    Don´t get me wrong but almost any cripple can make Schutzhund 1!!!!!!!
    That´s no big deal!
    And a dog wagging it´s tail not necessarily means that he wants to be your friend! LOL!!!!!!!!
    See I do like working dogs of any kind but people getting lazier and lazier and expect qualities based only on wishes and talk rather than hard work!
     
  13. cliffdog

    cliffdog Top Dog

    You're right. I feel like show breeders ruin everything they get their hands on. Those "whole Dobermann" breeders who claim their working dogs can also win AKC shows, promise their buyers that they're getting both a show dog and a good working dog, and it's all a crock of shit. They can barely succeed at Schutzhund, let alone REAL DEAL PROTECTION. I know of a Doberman (red, male) who guards a supply house downtown and I believe that dog was about $3750 (USD) in total, Czech import, and that was without even being cropped and docked (I think it's illegal there). One of the most serious dogs I have ever seen but if you put him in a Conformation show they would laugh your ass out the building!
     
  14. Icepick

    Icepick Banned

    And for the record, just like bulldogs, not all Dobermans are going to meet breed expectations. My advice, go look at a pup from a couple different places. I'm sure you know to stay away from pet stores lol. First and foremost, pay attention to how Sire and Dam are acting around you. If they act nervous, or shy, I suggest stay away from the pup. If they are inquisitive about you, and seem very alert, it may be worth a shot. If they have to be restrained from eating your ass up, they fit into the attack dog category, and that doesnt sound like what you are looking for.
    How my brother can find good ones out of the paper, and others are sinking 3k on crap, is funny...
     
  15. cliffdog

    cliffdog Top Dog

    That's meant to say 2750* The regular cost plus the price to ship the dog.
     
  16. doginhold

    doginhold Top Dog

    A fine example on a dog trained to guard property you can find on youtube:

    Just look for

    dogo canario training, dabu

    hope you´ll find it
     
  17. doginhold

    doginhold Top Dog

    Hope this works!


    [video=youtube;WRsvp7O_440]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRsvp7O_440[/video]
     
  18. Icepick

    Icepick Banned

    I cant stand AKC requirements. Anyone who sets "standards" such as color, weight, height, etc... is just not my cup of tea. Give me a dog (like the APBT) thats not recognized by the AKC any day of the week! Bred for stuff that matters to me, and not to fit into a predefined model set by an organization. Take a white Boxer for example, I dont believe the AKC will let an owner show one, because their coats isnt the right color. WTF???
     
  19. doginhold

    doginhold Top Dog

    Thing is in Germany all other registries are even a worse bunch of dumb idiots!
     
  20. doginhold

    doginhold Top Dog

    Another one!

    [video=youtube;5QoHKzUCwS4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QoHKzUCwS4[/video]
     

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