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Show dogs vs Working dogs

Discussion in 'Dog Discussion' started by tommy3, Sep 28, 2005.

  1. tommy3

    tommy3 CH Dog

    There has been alot of people coming on to this site and asking questions concerning dogs from show lines or dogs that are bred for weight pulling. Some of these people claim to have knowledge of game bred dogs or dogs from game lines. Yet, they still seem to be interested in show lines. I have a question for those who are so interested in these show lines.

    Why not get a well bred dog from game lines (the true representation of the breed)? These dogs can compete in shows and they will represent what the breed is really supposed to look like? Which I believe is the only way the dogs should be judged. These dogs can weight pull and they can pull more weight per lb than any of the bigger dogs.

    I understand why people come on here asking about razors edge and crap like that at first... But, when people learn that these lines are crap they seem to want to fish for opinions on other lines that are also bred for the wrong reasons. Why? And if you say you cannot deal with all of the energy or responsibility, you should get a different breed.

    So, considering these things, why would you even waste your time on a dog that is bred for looks (that are actually not what the APBT is supposed to look like anyways) or weight pull (when the dogs actually do not have as much strength as most game bred dogs)?

    Why not get a dog that is a true representation of the breed? I understand that you may like the way these show dogs look. But, that is not how the APBT is suppsosed to look. So, what is the point?

    I'd like to hear from these people who are so drawn to these show and pull lines. Try not to butt in and get rude. Let the people speak their mind so we may get some kind of clear understanding of why this is.
  2. GaDog

    GaDog Big Dog

    You are painting with a brush that is to wide for me. Add some or most and in my opinion onto some of your statements and it would be more readily exceptible. I dont disagree with most of what you say but even being a APBT lover and owner I do not think they are alway and forever the absolute best at everything just because they are gamebred. Some gamebred dogs also can be stupid, malformed and even weak. If all thing were done properly then alot of thos problems may be erased but a whole lot of breeders will sell every pup from a litter no matter what problems it may have. So again in theory I do agree with most of what you said but there are exceptions in everything.
  3. tommy3

    tommy3 CH Dog

    Nope, I don't see the need to change anything. Of course there are going to be exceptions to the rule. But, you make it sound like weak, malformed, and stupid gamebred dogs are almost common. If the dogs are gamebred or even bred well at all, this will almost never happen. Dogs that come out weak, malformed, or stupid are usually results of poor breeding or just a chance of nature. That goes for any breed of dog. A dog bred for looks is much more inclined to have problems than a dog that is from proven stock. That is a fact.
  4. Diesel

    Diesel Top Dog

    For me is purely personal preference.
    I dont dislike gamedogs at all... i just prefer these lines.
  5. pulldoginks

    pulldoginks Banned

    I love all pit bulls but truly it is a personal preference of what you like.
  6. Yung-One

    Yung-One Big Dog

    I just love my dog..............
  7. B

    B CH Dog

    That is the most simple but honest and to the point answer you can hope to hear. Great response :)

  8. First, I prefer a game-bred APBT over a staffie any day. Having said that, I do not believe game-bred lines are necessarily 'stronger' than lines bred for pulling. The main difference between the game-bred lines and their cousin Staffies is the drive to perform against other dogs. They are (IMO) two different breeds. Personally, if I was looking for a "strong" breed, I would choose the American Bulldog (Johnson style). They are my second favorite breed (not due to its drive but by its look and strength).

    I am glad when people tell me they bought a Staffie (rather than a game-bred) because having a 'proper' Staffie will reduce future incidents were the blame will be placed on all bully type dogs (particularly game-breds). Thus, I recommend people buy Staffies rather than game-breds b/c it will be easier on the owner and pet in the long haul.
  9. tommy3

    tommy3 CH Dog

    That is great. I, in no way, have a problem with people who just love their dogs and keep them as pets. I am sure if I raised any dog up, I would love it. No problem. My question is why would you search for big bullies and such? I understand personal preference. I am just wondering why does people's preference tend to be for a dog that does not resemble what the dog is supposed to be. I am in no way bashing anyones dogs. But, I am just trying to see where these people are coming from. Why aren't your personal preferences with dogs that are true examples of a great breed? Why would you continue to look for dogs that are bred for looks when you have learned that there are better dogs out there. I understand getting a dog that is a big bully before you learn the difference and loving it. I am sure there are many dogs that are bred this way that are very good dogs. But, I do not understand why people continue to come on here and ask questions about show lines and such after they have taken in some knowledge concerning dogs from game lines. I just want to know why people prefer these dogs over dogs of game lines.
    And I do not have no real problem against dogs that are bred for pulling. At least they are bred to work in some way. But, dogs from game lines can pull too. Please give some actual answers. Not just personal preference. Why is it your personal preference?
  10. tommy3

    tommy3 CH Dog

    Great, I have recommended people to getting amstaffs or staffie bulls before too. This is because I knew they couldn't handle a game bred dog and I sure wasn't going to recommend they get a mutt with the name "pitbull" slapped on it. By the way, yeah the dogs bred for pulling are stronger. But, if you look, you would see that I said that game bred dogs will have more strength than many or most dogs that are bred for pulling. Strength, as in weight pulled per pound of the dogs weight. Sure the dogs bred for weight pull can pull alot more weight. But, I have seen many small dogs that can pull alot more per lb than most of the other dogs. Of course, this is not always the case. Not that it matters, as I said earlier, I have no problem with weight pull dogs. At least they are doing something.
    My question was not aimed at weight pull dogs anyways. It is aimed at owners that have knowledge of dogs of game lines yet, they still want to get dogs that are bred for looks. I just feel that if you want a dog that is bred for looks, get an Amstaff. Not a dog that is bred for looks and called a pit bull.
  11. CRD

    CRD Big Dog

  12. Brothermarree

    Brothermarree Top Dog

    I personally like game bred bullies, like dogs that are 65-75 maybe 80 lbs but are bred down with drive nothing but drive (Mayday,Van Pelt's ect.)
  13. miakoda

    miakoda GRCH Dog

    I have yet to see an 80lb muscle bound pit bull take down a hog without getting killed or seriously injured before the catch.

    And the show dogs SHOULD be working dogs. In rare cases they are, but in most they're not. Just about every working breed differs dramatically in the true working version & the show version. :( Such a shame.

    For example:

    True working Siberian Huskies

    Show standard Siberian Husky[​IMG]
  14. miakoda

    miakoda GRCH Dog

    I guarantee the AKC show standard Siberian Husky couldn't pull a sled in zero degree weather more than 2 miles (if that).
  15. GaDog

    GaDog Big Dog

    Well Mia you are probably right in the last statement but would that be in part because they do not train for the sled. Is it in deed the fault of the dog if the owner does not prepare the animal for other uses? The sled dogs are raised and train for there job as does the show dog but they just train for the ring. I am sure that if all bull owners knew how and started training their dogs for one sport or another there would be champs from all kind of breedings. As it has been said in so many venues, "it is not the dog in the fight it is the fight in the dog". I believe that it would be possible for a Lab to be a champion in any sport if enough were trained for the sport, there would be the ones that shine. The APBT was designed for some fairly specific applications but can accel in many that it was not designed for. I believe that the same is true for of breeds. If the fighting ring were made legal again I think you would start seeing champion blues, mixes and conglomerations of all kinds of breedings. The APBT may still rule in the overall scheme of things but you would see other dogs with drive and "game". Look at humans, it is sometimes the most unlikely that do the most amazing of things. I believe that this would also manifest itself in the world of dogs if all dogs were given equal opportunity.
    Hey this is just my belief and I am sure some will throw rocks my way but history of man and animal speaks for its self.
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 29, 2005
  16. jasong

    jasong Big Dog

    Why aren't your personal preferences with dogs that are true examples of a great breed? Because it is exactly what you have said, "personal preference" People think and act differently, They are wired differently. That's why there are Republicans and Democrats. That's whay people prefer Rock n Roll over Rap and vise versa. YOu can't put a label on personal preference. Maybe it's b/c they like a bigger dog, maybe it's b/c they like color, maybe it's b/c they don't want a dog that they have to muzzle their dog whenever they take it out on a walk b/c they are acared it will go after another dog. Maybe it's b/c they fell in love with the puppy/dog when they first saw it and didn't care what type (game or bully) of dog it was. Whatever the reason is, it still a personal preference and that's good enough for me. As long as they care for their dogs and give them the same love that dog gives them who cares what the reason is. That's the beauty of living in a free country like ours. We have the choice to get a dog for whatever reason(s) or lack there of, we choose. Freedom means we don't have to explain ourselves to anyone if we so choose. Just my 2cents worth.
  17. Diesel

    Diesel Top Dog

    Your putting your personal preference over it all.
    How can you say: "Why aren't your personal preferences with dogs that are true examples of a great breed? Why would you continue to look for dogs that are bred for looks when you have learned that there are better dogs out there."
    Better in whose eyes, and better at what? I personally think that my dogs are better for my lifestyle then game dogs are. As a house dog and primarily just a family companion... I think my dogs are fine. I have had a few goamebred dogs and they simply didnt work out. They ended up being primarily outside dogs... too amped all the time. The dogs I have now are high drive but with an off switch. They will come inside and sit down and relax, but then go outside and workout full tilt. Its a balance that I couldnt get with the gamedogs I had. Not to say that they are all that way, but from the individuals that I had... they were.

    I select my dogs because they are asthetically pleasing to me. I like the way they look and the temperment they display. Your lifestlye and preference is different from mine, so we have different applications and aspirations for a a dog should do. I like my dogs to be inside. and as someone with a multiple dog house hold... I require certain traits. Nothing is guarenteed but I have 4 dogs in the house right now and am having no issues aside from making sure that they go outside boy/girl, boy/boy or girl/girl would be bad.

    I dont think you can put your idea of better or worse on another persons preference.
  18. miakoda

    miakoda GRCH Dog

    NO. It's because the working dogs are bred to WORK! Only the dogs that have the wind, the speed, the structure to endure the task are bred. The show version is bred to have a typey head, to be muscular, to be pretty, etc. NOT to work. It's not that the show dogs aren't trained, it's that every aspect of their body that was bred for to excel in their task, has been changed in order to breed for "pretty" & "showy".

    And I never blamed the dogs. The blame lies SOLELY on humans!

    No you can't. But you also can't change an entire breed's structure & standard just because you want a huge headed, wide chested, short legged, muscle bound dog but want to be able to call it a "pit" & tell people you own "pits" either. If you have a want for that type of dog, chose another breed. Presa Canario, Dogo Argentino, Cane Corso, Bullmastiff, Olde English Bulldogge, Valley Bulldogge, Alapaha Blue Blood Bulldogge, American Bulldog, even the American Staffordshire Terrier,etc. These are all the breeds that fit into the style category many want, but the downside is they aren't "pits" & they can't breed "pits" & they can't walk their "pits" down the street to get "respect".

    BUT if those certain traits don't match the standard of the breed (namely the APBT), then you can't take it upon yourself to change the breed's standards to fit you. Please read the above mentioned list of breeds that are more suitable. If you don't like the APBT, then leave it alone & get another breed!
  19. jasong

    jasong Big Dog

    Great answer. I feel the same. It doesn't matter what your personal preference is. It's yours and no one elses. So it doesn't matter what other think or feel b/c they aren't you.
  20. miakoda

    miakoda GRCH Dog

    You're right. But I for one refuse to sit quitly & idlely by & watch the breed self destruct like the English Bulldog did. If you don't like the fact that myself & others like myself are going to fight the changing standardsof the breed, then I suggest you move on (this is to no one in particular-just a general statement to those out there reading). Yes the APBT was a mixture of several different breeds--weren't all dogs at some point?--yet over a hundred & some years ago, the breed was FORMED! It was a set breed with a breed standard that should be upheld! Just because you want to own a pit bull, but don't like the way the APBT is, then rethink your choice of dog & reasons for wanting to own one. If you want to own an APBT, then that means you like the breed in it's REAL form. If you don't, then want to own it for name alone. And that's sad............

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