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painter type?

Discussion in 'Dog Discussion' started by gypsyboy, Jun 27, 2012.

  1. Philippe

    Philippe Pup

    When I do my own PP work - I keep a harness on the dog for any agitation prior to a bite, as it is much better for the dog's head to pull against a harness when told to go. The harness has it's own handle. The dog is also on a prong collar hooked to a leash for correction purposes.

    I've worked a CO or two in my day... It's a humbling experience when you put yourself in front of the right one. Here is my stupid ass the first time I met my CO's Uncle.

    [​IMG]
     
  2. Sorry im late on this one good people...

    Phillippe them dogs youve got there look amazing..that Kangel looks mean as fuck.more of a bear then a dog lol.
    awesome man.
    nice posts to...

    Nice posts as always GK....and Slim.

    Lisa its not good for big powerful dogs overhere.lol.as i think you can guess from some of my tails.
    and ive seen more ill temperd dogs of this type with unsutible owners, i just grown when i speak to some one and they say they just bought a Kangle or a Bandog..
    not that its the kangle or bandogs fault in anyway when it gobbles down there children if you get my logic..its just over here, and everywere for that matter.big huge monster dogs attract the most terrible owners-owners what would find it beyond them to look after even a goldfish let alone a hundred pound hell hound.
    so yeah ...the situation over the pond aint good lol.

    When you say reverse sissor bite on your dogs..how do they bite?
    you say youve seen both mouths..whats better in your own oppinion?
    ive always been curious about tgis mouth.Stratton says its by no means uncomon amougst APBTs..though ive never seen one my self.ive seen some were one or to of the bottom teeth are slightly undershot.but thats it.
    the show bulldog standard says this feature was bred in to the dogs so they could breath easyier when holding a bull..ive never belived that my self,
    as the show bulldogs jaw is so exaggerated that a blind man can see it cant be put to the theory.
    But Stratton also says..that if this reverse jaw is not exagerated in any way that it may well be a stronger jaw.opose to the normal jaw(scissor)but he also says that this reverse jaw is hard to replucate without it going all wrong..
    whats your thoughts on that?as the Carr dog Bama posted looked like its jaw was perfect reverse.are all the reverse jaws with ABs this good?
    and can these hold as good as the normal scissor?
    whats your thoughts on that Lisa please?Slim?GK?Bama?Lrs?Pilippe?and anyone eles ive left out?

    All the best folks.
     
    david63 likes this.
  3. GK1

    GK1 Big Dog

    Is it helpful to look to mother nature and her ruthless efficiency - in weeding out traits which don’t contribute 100% to survival of the fittest ? I think so. Consider the wolf skull and jaws, or those of the African wild dog. Any undershot, reverse bites? Do not these dogs “know” how to bite, re-grip, use the front teeth, the molars…shred, break, pin, hold etc..via millions of years of evolution from predatory reptiles? Without doubt. So how is a modern man-made reverse, undershot bite more efficient than what was created in the apex hunters?
     
    david63 and Soze the killer like this.
  4. Good post.
    i agree.about the wolves or wild dogs hunting.
    but..man or early man observed all this.watched it.watched these wild beasts hunt.and bred them far more superia to there wild ancesters.
    over mans selction dogs became better then wild dogs.
    man bred them stronger and gamer.from the start of demesotication this was mans aim..
    how this all happend is not hard to work out.
    cave type men,who were more beast then man were the first to demestocate the dog.now these men lived in caves and lived right along side of all wild animals.lived in the caves what also housed certain beasts like bears cats and ofcourse some sort of dogs.bears were the first to be atempted at demestocation.but a million years ago or now.and we all are very awear bears make unsutible companions LOL.once them bears got big and competible to rule the cave over man they were killed.simple as that.
    these men were like animals,and started the prosess of the symbolic relationship between man and canid.
    wild dogs may have lingerd around them and thats how it happend or they may of tamed them in a brutel sort of way.that parts unclear.
    but they tamed them some way all the same.fossels and cave drawings of all this has been found.and with great imagination one can pressume,of looking at these cave drawings, that these semi demestocated canids resembled either a spitz or ever a collie type dog.
    then there was some sort of forign or alien invasion.and these invaders were far more advanced then the cave man/homo ferris type beasts who inhabited this earth.
    at first these invaders would of considerd these cave men animals.but as advanced as these invaders were,they never had any animal savy.they soon realiaed to make or even survie in this world you need to hunt and eat the animals found here.over time they would of realiaed to carry on they had to breed with what ever animals were closer to humans.so they enslaved the cave men race and raped them and bred them selfs back to the fittest.producing the human race.
    werther enslaving these people scared the semi demestocated dogs of,leaving them to be caught up again and re domesticated or werther they hung around and obayed there new masters will never be known.
    but what is known is these new people would of watched these dogs hunt.
    and they would of quickly spoted some pull,some sent, and some sight.
    thats how the true demestocation of the dog was brought on.they would of bred the ones what pull together.resulting in a stronger skull and a stronger dog through this selection.resulting in the Brachycephalic/Broad skull.
    they would of bred the sight ones to the sight ones.witch would of resulted in a faster dog with the Dolichocephalic/Narrow skull.
    and the same with the ones what sented resulting in the Mesocephalic skull of the sent hound group..

    now if you look at a pack formation of any wild dogs/canids you will spot the ones what pull it down exc.but the ones what pull it down aint as strong as say a mastiff.so to get them from wild looking to mastiff looking must of surely took quite a few gens of selection.pure breeding amongst the ones what pull if you like.

    I dont no what this has to do with undershot jaws lol.i did have a point to make lol.
    the mouth dose not mean the skull shape i suppose.and this skull shape through mans selection down the ages may have produced abnormelties with the teeth.
    the modern exagerated to death teeth of the show English Bulldog was brought on most defintly through the blood of the pug.there may have been the odd reverse bite befor all this,but the pug is responsible for exagerating it even more.

    The AmBull was clearly a breed used as a ranch and catch hunting dog,to be re created in the fiftys.i belive west camps high hope was a AKC show English Bulldog that had come out not so crippeld.
    but still,adding any sort of show Bulldog is adding pug to your stock.
    and even though early humans demestocated them wild dogs,i doubt they would of liked a undershot jaw.they would of wanted to make the ones what pull skulls bigger and jaws wider.but they would of wanted the teeth the same as there wild conterparts.
    as if this was a good feature wild dogs would all be undershot.
    all gard dogs would.
    all pit bred dogs would.

    Scissor bite all the way.
     
    david63 likes this.
  5. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    I do not believe it helps. It may shred a little more but then they break a lot easier. Then, without hardware, evolution would fix a lot of things.

    But then we will breed that dog and perpetuate the anti-evolution approach.
     
    Soze the killer likes this.
  6. nice way if putting things...
    and in so little few words.

    Something i lack the skill doing.werther it be through speaking or typeing LOL.

    I mean i ramble on to much to get were im going.
     
    david63 likes this.
  7. Philippe

    Philippe Pup

    On the note of American Bulldogs - Our present Female "Maully" out Polar Bear hunting this morning.

    IMG_1586 2.JPG IMG_1591 2.JPG

    I've been bitten by several hundred dogs in my life... A couple of GSD's and Mals stand out in the memory bank, along with old Bouviers (20 years ago now) as being horrendous on grips - Not dogs you worked on consecutive days with competition weight equipment without getting souvenirs - And all scissor bite dogs, BUT I have worked dogs with reverse scissors and slight underbites that could bite down - And catch dogs have a slight undershot and I have trusted some of them with a Boar in the woods when the flashlight dies (And I suck at climbing trees).

    Some of those memories that make you smile and shiver at the same time.
     
    david63, bamaman and Soze the killer like this.
  8. Jim87

    Jim87 Pup

    Hey, any chance you guys know a breeder with pure painter AB's? Thanks in advance.
     
  9. david63

    david63 CH Dog

    Me to Soze.
     
  10. I dont sorry mate...i dont even no who paiter is lol.
     
  11. AGK

    AGK Super duper pooper scooper Administrator

    I got a guy on my FB that has been breeding these dogs for a very long time. Josiah Kennels Southern Blood. I don't follow the breed at all but I know his dogs look highly functional. Great looking dogs.
     
    Soze the killer likes this.
  12. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    Josiah or Joshua?

    Always interested.

    S




     
    Soze the killer likes this.
  13. Jim87

    Jim87 Pup

    I guess Joshua.. Nice catch dogs, his "old southern" line looks good but it seems like they have APBT in them.
     
  14. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    Not sure on that. I guess it is possible. I think in that kind of work the athleticism and bulk are at a constant battle. Those dogs seems to lean toward a more consistency of athleticism, as well as muzzle length. Some of the others use bulk as an advantage when on the hog.

    I have been a few times and although far from an expert I have seen where both approaches work.

    It comes down to personal preference. I talked with them some years back about buying one but I just could not justify the price. I bought the book instead. LOL It was a good read.

    S
     
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  15. LOL..Just get the book man.cant go wrong.
     
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  16. AGK

    AGK Super duper pooper scooper Administrator

    He actually claims vise versa. I aint saying I agree with him just liked how his dogs looked. Probably be cause I'm used to seeing the sloppy Johnson type ABs.
     
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  17. AGK

    AGK Super duper pooper scooper Administrator

    Josiah is how it's spelled on all his adds. Claims to have the old Victorian style ABs.
    In his words, the real AB. I don't know enough about the breed to dispute it.

    He is in Puerto Rico.

    FB_IMG_1601904943365.jpg

    FB_IMG_1601904927171.jpg

    FB_IMG_1601904909165.jpg

    FB_IMG_1601904879267.jpg
     
    Soze the killer likes this.
  18. PlugUgly

    PlugUgly Big Dog

    In general Id say stay away from anyone claiming some old pure line. Painter blood was crossed w other highly functional families but I dont know any pure.
     
  19. I say hes full of shit...
    victorian bulldogs are proper shite anyway.who would want one of em?

    A victorion bulldog means a PUG cross FiGHING DOG.
    who would want one?

    This guy your talking about is a dog dealer man.no matter how nice his dogs look.
    who the fck would want a pug cross game dog?
    lol a pure bred game dog will catch way more Pigs man.

    Sorry for my honesty..im not saying the mans mutts wont catch pigs.
    but i no what dog ide want by my side for such a task.
     
    david63 and Dusty Road like this.

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