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outcross

Discussion in 'APBT Bloodlines' started by machobuck, Aug 19, 2010.

  1. machobuck

    machobuck Big Dog

    normally when does a dogman feel asthough its time for an outcross im guessing when the vigor that they had when they first started their yard has decreased over the yrs do to inbreeding and line breeding what would be some other reasons for a outcross
     
  2. eddieem

    eddieem Big Dog

    when your dogs are lacking something..
     
  3. Dream Pits

    Dream Pits CH Dog

    pretty much answered ur own question. u inbreed to gain consistency but when u inbreed to far u lose vigour. performance and producing suffers as well. u need to keep the gene pool wide to prevent this and inbreed to make sure u get consistent results
     
  4. machobuck

    machobuck Big Dog

    dp whats good that dyno pup back on the market
     
  5. PurePit19

    PurePit19 CH Dog

    It all depend on the dogman. Some people could care less about the pedigree just so long as the dog works. With that said, you tend to have 3 types of dogmen/women..
    1). The guys who keep dogs for working purposes only, they tend to not breed much, usually just to maintain working stock. So pedigree won't matter so much as long as they work.
    2.) the guys who breed to preserve a particular line or strain of dogs. They tend to breed more frequently and tend to not focus on performance as much.
    3.) the guys that do both, breed a particular strain or line but breed with performance in mind.

    The people that focus on performance tend to outcrossing a bit more to keep performance levels up, while still keeping the pedigree as tight as possible to keep the uniformity of the line or strain. JMO
     
  6. Young SeNsE_VA

    Young SeNsE_VA Top Dog

    You broke it down really good. well said :D
     
  7. Dream Pits

    Dream Pits CH Dog

    great post pure pits!!! pm me macho
     
  8. mntman2003

    mntman2003 CH Dog

    the best dogs in the world rt now are at least 4 way crosses
     
  9. PurePit19

    PurePit19 CH Dog

    I don't think that is true, I know so many people with very very good performers, but they do everything in private so it's not in plain view. The best bitch I ever seen is a 50/50 cross. She's better than any female I ever seen, DVD or otherwise. She's only 3yrs old but I'm sure most people never heard of her. Same goes for some of the males I've seen, now adays people are much more private and the really good ones tend to stay under the radar for a reason. I thing good dogs just that, no matter how tight or crossed they are. JMO
     
  10. mntman2003

    mntman2003 CH Dog

    i agree with u to a point but look at tek-9 , and many other dogs in the sdj.
     
  11. magnoilaotis

    magnoilaotis Top Dog

    It is simple. Get the last sdj list of grch and look up the pedigrees of these dogs. How many are inbred to closely linebred? Now compare this to the number of of outcrossed dogs. You will then see that most of the best performers are crossed up pretty good. Some maybe are linebred, but they have a few different lines mixed in. I will also add that the inbred grchs probally are not bred like the paper says. A good dogman wrote "it is all about the right cross".
     
  12. mntman2003

    mntman2003 CH Dog

    Hardcore is doing jeep/rb /jocko rascal bolio good results.But PP 19 I agree a fresh 50/50 seems to add spark.
     
  13. fblb

    fblb Top Dog

    I am the king of outcrossing.
     
  14. fblb

    fblb Top Dog

    As a matter of fact y'all don't even know how I do it.....I am transparently incrossing with a touch of upcrossing on the bottom side with 3372 outs on the top....check it, lol.
     
  15. machobuck

    machobuck Big Dog

    wtf fblb lol
     
  16. PurePit19

    PurePit19 CH Dog

    Well in my opinion it goes back to what I posted up top. Different types of dogmen do different types of things. To me, most Ch and Gr Ch get sold to breeders, the handlers intentions with the dog will be different than those of a breeder. If a breeder had a grand champion quality or titled dog, you tend to her less about them. You hear less because that particular dogman sees that said dog as prime candidate to build a yard off of instead of risking the health of the dog in competition. How many of us know of great dogs that die way before their breeding potential was ever met.... A dead dog is useless to breed to, so I truly believe that some dogs that can perform are more valuable in the brood pen then in the show ring. I saw one of the Gamest Ch on the east cost take his last breath, and you know what.... He didn't need to go out for number 4, and although he won, he would've been much more valuable in the brood pen. He was bred 5 times and only produce 1 female who also died at young age. To me it's waste unless your working dogs that you the breeder can reproduce again. And that's the difference in thought process between breeder and a handler, a handler will show everything he's feeding until there is no use for the animal, then they ship back to the original breeder or get sold for top dollar. JMO
     
  17. machobuck

    machobuck Big Dog

    PP thats some real shit
     
  18. fblb

    fblb Top Dog

    Not trying to be funny, but would you not build a yard around a good family rather than one good dog? Obviously you are going to have those that have more influence that the others, but to build a yard around one dog in particular seems to me like setting yourself up for failure.
     
  19. PurePit19

    PurePit19 CH Dog

    Well you gotta start somewhere.... Why not with a proven dog over a not so proven dog. You get one good litter and there is your family to tighten up on. To me, it's more important that I breed specific working individuals over just a family of dogs. There are good and bad in every family, I'd try my best to stack the chips with as many good workers from the same family rather than try to build of off mediocre dogs just cuz they're from a solid family.
     
  20. fblb

    fblb Top Dog

    I am not talking about a mediocre family I am talking about dogs based around the same blood...not necessarily the exact same animals that have all been sifted through, and only the best ones make it. Family breeding on the exceptional individuals from that family is the way if you have access to it. I never said anything about breeding just any dogs from the same family together...basing your entire program around one proven dog limits you.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 20, 2010

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