Our new pound pup

Did not mean to start an argument, We have always trained our pups, whether German Sheps, Pits or others from the start by taking away food and toys and have never had a problem with resource guarding. I let kids and others do this too, We get them used to walkers and being petted with canes at the Assisted Living where my Mom is. We never have to wake up a sleeping dog because they wake up when they hear us wake up or coming toward them. we are respectful and don't startle them awake, not because they would attack, but because it would be rude. I do belive in being vigilant about my dogs when they are around people and other animals because no matter how well trained and sweet natured you never know and there are people out there that don't respect and love Shepherds and Pits. I need to protect my dog from them,

 

Wow! Active thread since the comments I made, about the toys and about the sleeping. I wasn't able to login this weekend to check the boards because my Internet service at home was down (thank you Comcast)...

Anyway..

About "Resource Management" ... when I first got into dogs I read an article by an animal behaviorist, who stated something to the effect of "A dog is happier when he doesn't have to make decisions." meaning, his master decides when he eats, and he (the dog) has to work for his food, his master decides when he can have his toys, and he (the dog) has to work for them, etc. The "Nothing in life is free" philosophy. This, theoretically, (when combined with lots of exercise) keeps the guarding behaviors away, because the dog, well, is in a "subservient" position in the pecking order by default when you work it that way. Wild dogs are like this, to a certain degree too.

Cesar Millan gives dogs the alpha roll to establish dominance, I prefer to "be" dominant by managing the resources, and setting up the "work for what you want" system.

It works for me.

Now, about the kids... I always give this advice from now on, and here's why...

A co-worker of mine has a pit bull, a nice, red girl. He also has a 4 year-old. He told me, a while back, that he caught his 4 year-old crawling into the dog's crate, with her in it and chewing on a bone. He heard the growling... and he saw his young'un reaching for the bone.

BAD NEWS...

Now, I agree 100% that a true APBT should be stable enough to handle that with a calm, goofy smile.

But I didn't want to hear about this kind winding up in the news, like others have.

So I give that advice to folks with pits.

But again, I do agree whole-heartedly with the stability argument. Hell, my girl, she has this stupid, noisy, rubber pig ball (think of the movie Snatch) and I got for her when I first brought her home. She LOVES it. But I can walk right up to her, and take it from her and all she does is wag her tail and smile at me. She'd probably still do that if I wasn't vigilant aboutt he resource management, but yeah, she's like that with everything. She gets a hold of something I don't want her to eat or chew on, I get it away from her with no issues, no lip, just a smile.

About the sleeping dogs being left to sleep... I figure it like this: my dog is stable, but why even create a situation where accidents could happen.

I love our breed's reputation as the "nanny dog", and I love watching my girl play with my two year-old neice. She's so gentle with that toddler even when she's grabbing her ears and hugging her. Just sits there, happy and content. But I watch her like a hawk.

Anyway, you know I respect your guys opinions. And if you feel I'm being hyper-vigilant, by all means let me know. You know me, I've not been in this all that long, and when I began to realize how much responsibility comes with this, I figured it'd be better to err on the side of caution. Like I always say, I don't want to do anything stupid and f**k it up for everybody else ;-)

EDIT: Shoot ... I forgot to mention one thing ... I always forget to mention stuff, sorry guys.

About the kids, and taking toys and bones and whatnot. I advise for the adults to handle the resource management: the giving, and taking of resources, but not little kids, that's just me, and I could be wrong here, but, like with my niece, if Buggie is hanging out, chewing her pig ball, I like to keep my niece away from her. Just for safety's sake, so, when my nice sees her there, and Buggie is laying down, with her toy, if she makes like she's going to go over to her I just tell her "No no", and take the child over to her toys, building blocks and whatnot, instead, and play with her for a while. And she's not allowed in the kitchen with the pup is eating. Stuff like that. But like I said, if I'm being overly-cautions, let me know... I'm not neurotic about it, or nervous, I'm calm with the mindfulness, and my dog can tell, she's always soft as jello, real relaxed. I think all the exercise she gets helps, too. I mean, she gets excited (in a happy way) when the child is around, but she's usually too tired to really get rowdy, she mostly just lays down next to her and lets her per her and stuff. Sometimes she'll put her head in my niece's lap...

I've heard that Pits are good with kids, and she seems to excel in that department. Heh, I've known labs, mutts, bichons etc. that were AWFUL around kids... Never known a pit that was mean to kids. But I still take precautions, I'm still in that "over observant, strict" phase of ownership I guess.

 

Don't worry about it, this actually, by my reckoning, turned into a good conversation.

And it's good to be on this board, there's a lot of good folks here, with a lot of good dogs. Sure, methods for training, opinions over the importance of obedience training versus work training (like working, e.g.: weight pull and stuff) differ, along with other opinions, but the most important thing here, is that these folks, they handle and raise their dogs well, they're knowledgeable and they, and their dogs, will probably never wind up in the "Victim's Stories" on the D*gsB*te.org website. And at the end of the day, for the sake of the dogs, that's all that really matters.

I like being here because for me, I've always had this tendency of getting "obsessed" with one or two particular things that really interest me. I never really thought about dogs too much till I met my wife. She had a pit, and that dog was like, my best friend in the whole world 5 minutes after meeting me. She was my trusty side-kick every minute of every day after that. And, true to form, I got obsessed LOL ... Later on, I came here, for information, and to talk bulldogs. It helps me, because, well, I get worried. I worry a lot, not to the point where it takes away from me enjoying my dog of course, but still, I worry. If I had a Greyhound or a Collie, probably wouldn't worry as much. But with Begonia, I'm far more careful, due to the fact that these dogs don't have many friends "out there", and the good folks who keep them, they deserve to have them. And I don't want me and my dog to land ourselves in a situation where we contribute to the BSL argument, because that affects every other Pit, and everybody else, like my friends here, is all. I don't take percautions because I think my dog is vicious, no no no, she's FAR from vicious. I do it because people are vicious, and me and Buggie, we have to be above reproach.

 

You are correct but with an emphasis on "my dogs". I was referring to dogs in general and it is a good idea to teach kids to not wake a sleeping dog or take resources from dogs in general. I agree with what you are saying, but it doesn't apply to every dog unfortunately.

 

im referring to not just dogs in general... ALL DOGS! look at a kid wrong, DIRT NAP...12ga 00buckshot at point blank, no excuses, no exceptions. done it, and you all better be able to also...or get a phuckin poodle!

 

You are missing my point - I am in total agreement with you about holding high standards. I have euthanized more dogs than I care to recall in the last few years. My point is that kids should not learn to do such things because most people do not have such standards, especially with other breeds, and, unfortunately, these days, many who have our breed. Food aggression toward people shouldn't be tolerated in any breed, but is often excused as being "normal".:mad: As a result, you should probably teach kids to not bother a dog(in general, not necessarily your dog) when it is eating or is chewing on a high stakes item, not because it's right, but because that's the way it is.

 

1)Absolutely, but many people do not, so it isn't a good practice in general.

2)I wouldn't, I would do exactly what you mentioned.

I think I misread the question you were asking. I think what you actually meant is, "if you have a good dog, why should you not be able to do those things?" I thought you were asking, "what bad could possibly happen from a kid trying to take a bone from a dog?" They are two totally different questions. Sorry if I interpreted you incorrectly.

 

No, these dogs(my breed, i dont give a crap about others) better take it, the ones i grew up around did, and i expect the same...or the breed is slipping, and if thats the case, i ll get outa dogs alltogether

 

If you have euthanized that many dogs in the past few years maybe you should look at what you are doing wrong, and not the dogs...Also kids can learn to do alot of stuff, but that does not mean they are always going to do what they have been told. Anyone reading this should be made aware that food aggression is not "normal", and should be delbt with accordingly.

 

been around bull dogs since i was born never been bit.

 

excuses and such make me sick...kids are kids....but a dog is just that...A PHUCKIN DOG!

 

Excuses for kids make ME sick. :rolleyes:

But you hit the nail right on the head woody when you said "a dog is just that ... A PHUKIN' DOG!" I couldn't have said it better. They're NOT humans, they don't reason like a human & they can't speak like a human. They can't tell some little brat to back off, they can't tell a kid they're scared, they can't tell them the kid is hurting them, etc. They can only react as a DOG can b/c that's what they are. DOGS.

A lot of people forget this & think dogs are some type of super human creature that should put up with every mishandling under the sun just b/c the abuser is a child & the abusee is a dog. Wrong. A dog is still a dog & we need to treat them (& train them) as such. 99.99% of dog bites are b/c of HUMAN error, not DOG error. In most (if not all) cases the dog was just doing what came naturally to a dog.

Good Lord, we were raised up never to disturb a sleeping dog or disturb it while it was eating or had a bone. We were also taught not to pull ears or tails, poke eyes or try to ride them like ponies. But I see kids do this all the time & the parents either aren't paying attention & don't even know it's going on or they know & just expect the dog to take it. What kind of crap is that?? If a kid gets a bite while engaging in any of the aforementioned activities, I'd say the fault is poor parenting instead of a bad dog.

using the sleeping example, if you wake me up by touching my physically while I'm dead asleep & I'll come up swinging until I get my senses about me. We even had a rule in the military where you weren't responsible for anything you said or did for 5 minutes after a person awakened you suddenly. But we expect dogs to be better than humans?

Why is this? After all (& rightly so) they're JUST PHUKIN' DOGS!

Perspective folks, let's keep perspective.

 

OK, I'm not sure what to say here. I just said that food aggression should not be tolerated, and you are disagreeing saying that food aggression should be dealt with accordingly. Aren't we saying the same thing? The dogs I have had euthanized include a 10 wk old pup that would stare you down and growl at you, a dog that would go crazy to protect a toy that was halfway across the room and was willing to grab you in the process, and a dog that would walk up to someone he just met and seemed fine with 5 minutes earlier and challenge then and growl at them(happened with multiple people). I think both you and woody would agree that these all needed to go. Of course for every one of these, there have been 20 more great, sound dogs with no issues.

 

This is pretty much what I am saying - even though I may expect a bulldog to put up with pretty much anything(that is just one of the things that makes our breed great), it is a two way street. Accidents are best prevented by ensuring we have good dogs along with well trained humans.

 

Where did I disagree with the food aggression part I was reinforcing it? By the way good job on putting a puppy of 10 weeks old to sleep for acting like a pup....you do know you need to work with dogs, right? They don't all come out perfect. That sounds like laziness, and stupidity on your part.

 

to set the record straight...my children respect ALL dogs and understand what you can and cant do, but these dogs(APBTs), are a dogs yes, but they are THE most stable dog mentally w/ children IMO, and i expect nothing less

 

It is normal for a pup to challenge you? Sorry, but I just don't agree with that. It is normal for pups to be nippy, rowdy, and rambunctious, but not to give you a cold death stare.

The pup was also dissociative with the other members of its litter, and it incited adult dogs that have no problems with puppies to attack it -clearly not normal. Of course, we are all free to cull as we like aren't we, so to each his own if they are keeping the dog. This was a pup that would be adopted out, though, so that is a different story. You have to be even more selective when you know the dog may end up in the hands of someone who isn't so savvy and/or careful.

 

If thats true that you put down a 10 wk old pup for those reasons your knowledge with these dogs is laughable at best. I dont know you or anything else about you but i do know your a joke for that one.

You can try to justify yourself by saying he was dissassociative with his litter mates and parents all you want, fact is he was only 10 wks old and i would say most of us on here know these dogs better than that.

 

The pup was more like 20 weeks by the time I actually made the decision, but had my eye on him since we first got him at around 10 weeks when he acted strange, so it's not like it was a knee jerk reaction. I have raised probably 20 different pups from that age and have never seen one act like that. If you had seen it, you may think differently, but I guess we'll never know. I don't need to defend that decision any further.
Since we have gotten so far off topic, I will just close by saying that I feel obligated to prevent any dog with questionable disposition to end up in the hands of someone who can't handle it and lead to something negative for the individuals involved and the breed as a whole. If that means I am too selective for the liking of some, then so be it, but there are way too many dogs with no questionable issues that die every day to take a chance on a questionable one. I am perfectly OK with agreeing to disagree on certain things, nothing personal.

 

can we please take this thread back to the op's new aquisition. pretty disrespectful to sully up someones thread like this. this discussion-while good, does not belong here.


Sheperdpal- any more pics of the pup?