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OTC Winners,,,

Discussion in 'Dog Discussion' started by bamaman, Jul 3, 2013.

Page 2 of 6
  1. tigerboy5

    tigerboy5 Big Dog

    People who put a lot in their keep and dont want to waste their time, effort and money with out getting to bet on their hound.
     
    tigerboy5, Jul 4, 2013
    #21
  2. tigerboy5

    tigerboy5 Big Dog

    I agree with you. I also feel like a replacement dog for a contract match doesnt qualify for an otc but whether the replacement dog has a keep or not its still a match.
     
    tigerboy5, Jul 4, 2013
    #22
  3. Dream Pits

    Dream Pits CH Dog

    I meant to quote lwg, I was agreeing with you. My mistake
     
    Dream Pits, Jul 4, 2013
    #23
  4. old goat

    old goat CH Dog

    a match is a match only when both are conditioned .
     
    old goat, Jul 4, 2013
    #24
    HogdogFla likes this.
  5. tigerboy5

    tigerboy5 Big Dog

    Not true. A match is a match where both parties agree on a weight, date, reff and put up a forfeit. There is no governing body that is in place to make sure both side condition their dogs. If we hook a match and put up a forfeit for 8weeks from now i dont have to start working my dog the same day as you or even work him at all. Lets say i was working my dog but he ate some poison the day before, i can pull a dog straight off of the chain and bring him at the agreed weight and we still have a match. No matter who wins either dog is a 1xw.
     
    tigerboy5, Jul 4, 2013
    #25
  6. old goat

    old goat CH Dog

    this was the rules . you could not bring a uncondition dog and report that as a match . it was pre 76 but rules are rules . and hahah your funny .
     
    old goat, Jul 4, 2013
    #26
  7. tigerboy5

    tigerboy5 Big Dog

    Thats just dumb in my opinion. As long as both parties allow time for conditioning 4, 6, 8 or however many weeks they agree on then its a match. Some people work their dogs 59 out of 60 days in a 2 month keep and some work theirs for 24 day during the same time. So if i want to work mine little to none its still a match. If i have to get a replacement the day before its still a match old goat.
     
    tigerboy5, Jul 4, 2013
    #27
  8. Erie Outlawz

    Erie Outlawz CH Dog

    Well matches post 76 lol are weight date money ref and if sum dum dum doesn't wanna condition his dog but put up the money that's on him but not against any rule I ever heard of lol who would call him on it lmao!!!
     
    Erie Outlawz, Jul 4, 2013
    #28
  9. TDK

    TDK CH Dog Staff Member

    A replacement dog, unworked or lightly worked, time being a factor, that goes into a conditioned dog at the called weight, constitutes a match. Should the replacement dog win, I consider it a win, as the person borrowing or replacing his injured dog on his own is honoring the contract. There ARE dogs who work little and some even NONE, yet the contract is fulfilled regardless, and the dog is there for the show, and it competes. No one is the "conditioning police" in these dogs. No one can demand a certain criteria of work a dog must go through to show up and honor a contracted competition.
    Consider also, that a replacement dog, unworked or very little worked, is usually a naturally smaller dog than the conditioned dog assuming it's on weight with the conditioned dog.
    The scenario posted by AGK is basically right, as to what an OTC would be, IMO.
    Once in awhile (Too often), also, two folks will be out there rolling a couple and minutes into it, they decide to put some money on it. Then call it a match. It is NOT. It's egos and money prevailing over the very purpose of looking at them, which is to learn more about those two dogs at whatever stage of their life they're in. But IMO AGK has it basically where I could call it in proper perspective, myself.
     
    TDK, Jul 4, 2013
    #29
  10. old goat

    old goat CH Dog

    you could report 1 back then and say they were worked but don't let the journal find out 1 came straight off the chain and matched . now the damn rule did'nt say that dog must work it's ass off . you can't make them work if they did'nt want to . but you had to have tryed and said you worked them anyway or jack would laugh at you . a match was between 2 conditioned dogs . a otc was between whatever . you can't win a championship and go into dogs off the chain .
     
    old goat, Jul 4, 2013
    #30
  11. capo

    capo Big Dog

    pre 76 otc was a dog put in anothers spot that couldnt make it in a real match......forward to 2013, otc can be anything from backyarders matching two otc, or someone counting supposedly school rolls as wins because thier dog came out ahead!.............. question was how much crediblity does the dog get? lol, just look at it as if the dog has 1xotc on the ped it was just looked at 1x or 2x otc nothing more nothing less.
     
    capo, Jul 4, 2013
    #31
  12. TDK

    TDK CH Dog Staff Member

    Not exactly true, OG. With all due respect, Jack once told me that at least 30% of what was sent into him was bogus and never happened. He said he had to print it anyway as he had no proof to rebutt most of them. Back "in the day", there were more than a few that won and/or were championed that wouldn't work a lick. After the first go, the owner never tried. They were considered matches, as they honored the contracted agreement and competed. Ch Dirty Betty comes to mind from back then. She went against top notch competition, all of which were conditioned, went 2:06 and beat a highly touted 2x in her second. Another highly touted winner in her 3rd. Jack knew. Her owner wrote an article about her in the Journal, and stated all of this. There have been many more, also.
    "I tried" doesn't hold water, as that can be a lie, too. No more verifiable than anything else claimed. It doesn't matter, and never has, as long as contractual obligations are met. Time, place, amount, ref and weight.
    I stated that a roll turned into a bet is not a match. Merely egos inflaming. But there is a difference. Same goes for dogs just jerked off the chain for the same purpose. They are NOT matches. Honoring the criteria above IS. And no one can determine how a dog was worked, how well, how poorly, or if at all under said criteria being met.
     
    TDK, Jul 4, 2013
    #32
  13. old goat

    old goat CH Dog

    i know all about dogs that would'nt work . but you tryed to do anything and it did'nt matter what you did to get them to do something . i know of 1 that jack found out about and pulled the title . and yes he can't know everything . he told me you have to do something or you better not send it in and someone tells what happened because he would not report it . and i know 1 that got a title and no one said anything and they kept that title . i know of 1 dog that would'nt work and won quit a few . they gave the dog to someone who could spend some time and find out how to work it and he won more and looked so much better even though it was a monster .
     
    old goat, Jul 4, 2013
    #33
  14. Laced Wit Game

    Laced Wit Game Yard Boy

    replacement dogs for otc?? lol otc's are done on a whim, like agk explained..... im not comparing it to a legit match, however.... just because a dog has otc wins vs the other who has match wins..... i wouldnt use that as a barring on which is the better dog.....
     
    Laced Wit Game, Jul 4, 2013
    #34
  15. slim12

    slim12 Super Moderator Staff Member

    If both dogs are truly OTC and the weights are the same then it is as much a match as something pre-planned and prepared for 6-8 weeks. There is no real difference. For a contracted show both dogs are conditioned. Both are prepared. Both are on weight. For an OTC both dogs are not conditioned. If both dogs are equal in weight then there is no real difference between the two.
    The issues are automatic. One guy conditions and the other does not. One dog is heavier than the other. Then issues arise. The simplest way to offset the issues is to say be ready in 6 weeks/8 weeks and then there are no excuses. S
     
    slim12, Jul 4, 2013
    #35
  16. tigerboy5

    tigerboy5 Big Dog

    You wouldnt use a replacement dog for an otc. The whole idea of bringing a replacement dog is to avoid paying a forfeit. You wouldnt have a forfeit up for an otc in the first place, so if something goes wrong with your dog call and say your not coming or just dont show up. And yes some otc are set up on a whim but a lot arent. Breeders of gamedogs game test their brood stock. But a lot of competitors dont agree with a game test. They feel it is taking a match away from their dog so they will match cheap or set up an otc. They may do it by calling the camp they are hooked into a week before their show and asking if they have a 39-41 because they want to do one otc for cheap.
     
    tigerboy5, Jul 4, 2013
    #36
  17. tigerboy5

    tigerboy5 Big Dog

    Good post slim.
     
    tigerboy5, Jul 4, 2013
    #37
  18. old goat

    old goat CH Dog

    damn i guess i am old pre 76 a match tiger was a contract match . all that other stuff really did'nt matter then . but damn to bring 2 haha you know what i think about that .
     
    old goat, Jul 5, 2013
    #38
  19. rallyracer

    rallyracer CH Dog

    In ~today's~ world, in this country, if you are doing anything you are foolish. Contract? You are beyond ignorant. OTC is about your safest route to retain freedom if you chose to play the game
     
    rallyracer, Jul 5, 2013
    #39
  20. stinkrock

    stinkrock Top Dog

    If both dogs are straight otc an close to the same weight, an I saw it with my own eyes an I really liked what I saw. I would give it some consideration.
     
    stinkrock, Jul 5, 2013
    #40
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