game

I got a call Saturday night and a buddy of mine told me that a guy I know had fought his 9 month old puppy.

I'll start off by giving you some background on the guy and the situation. I have known the guy for a while and he has always been into the overgrown musclebound mutts but never considered fighting them. About a year ago, I talked to him about how these dogs aren't supposed to be bred for looks but they are supposed to be bred for gameness and so on. He actually was interested in it but he said he would rather have a big muscular dog because he liked the look of them. The conversations pretty much ended there.
A few months ago, he called me asking about some good game bred dogs but I didn't point him in any direction because I had a feeling that he would end up streetfighting the dog and so on. So I basically told him how much of a large undertaking it is to make a high energy driven dog from game lines into a house dog. He seemed to lose interest in getting a dog from game lines after that because he never called me back.
Well, today I get a call from a buddy of mine and he tells me that this guy has fought a 9 month old puppy that he bought and told him that it is game and all this other BS. I can't help but to feel responsible for this. It was just a honest conversation in hopes of giving someone knowledge of the breed. Instead, I have helped someone get the idea of streetfighting puppies.

This is the third person in the past 6 months that have told me about them fighting their "game dogs". None of these people have a mentor, none of these people should have an animal period. All of these people have gotten this game dog idea either from a dumbass like me or a site like this.


Anybody that knows me, knows that I hold gameness above all. However, why the hell does everybody on an Internet forum need to be convinced that they are not breeding APBTs if they are not breeding for gameness? Do you not recognize how many people are breeding these dogs daily? If the importance of gameness becomes implanted into these BYBs heads, we are going to have a real problem. And it is not going to be with the overgrown hippos. It will concern the little athletes that we care about. Why do people insist that they need to tell newbies and just about everyone else that they are breeding mutts because they are not breeding for gameness?????? Dogfighting is illegal folks. You are basically trying to convince people that have no idea what they are doing to fight their dogs to prove that they are game so they can have real "pit bulls". This is not a good thing. Leave gameness in the history. Gameness has no need in an Internet forum when spoken in present terms.

The name and reputation of the Pit Bull is already ruined.

Dogfighting is illegal and the only way to prove gameness is through dogfighting.

Stressing to people that they don't have APBTs if they aren't bred for gameness does nothing more than encourage people to fight their dogs. And you can bet that they are not fighting by cajun rules or any rules for that matter. They are streetfighting these dogs and bringing more negative light upon the breed. And we are encouraging it when we tell people that they are supposed to breed for gameness. Think about it folks it is the damn truth.


Gameness, gametesting, dogfighting, all of it.... should serve no purpose on an Internet forum. Unless it is stricty historical. PLEASE, STOP TELLING PEOPLE THAT THEIR DOGS ARE NOT REAL APBTs BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT BRED FOR GAMENESS.



Instead of the closing the circle, we have eliminated the circle and it is going to completely destroy the breed.

We do not need thousands of wanna be dogmen running around with no true knowledge. Damn, all we have left is the true bulldogs that no one recognizes as true pit bulls. We should be happy.
We shouldn't encourage punks from dedicating their time ruining their mutts to ruining our bulldogs.
Let them have those hippos and the pit bull name.
And leave the issue of gameness off of the Internet. If it is being checked in the present, NO ONE should know about it and it sure as hell should not be encouraged on the Internet.

This is all my opinions from what I have been noticing on recent posts and recent situations. I can't see any good from this.

As I said before, if the name pit bull is associated with 100 lb, babykillers with 30 inch heads that can barely move, the name pit bull doesn't really mean anything anymore.
I refuse to associate my human loving athlete with these mutts and I sure as hell won't ever tell anyone about gameness ever again unless I am willing to actually become a dedicated mentor (By the way, I am not a dogman by any means and the liklihood of this happening is virtually impossible for the next 50 or so years LOL.). I know where my dog stands, I know what he is. I can give a shit less if the guy down the street is breeding his hippos with no regard to gameness. That dog does not represent my dog and as far as I am concerned, it doesn't share the same name.

Game dogs don't belong in the forefront.

If a person decides to prove their dogs game by some information they gained from an Internet forum, they probably should have never learned anything about gameness PERIOD.

My circle is permanently closed.

 

Very interesting perspective. Thanks for posting it.

 

Good for you!!!

This breed is not for everyone, now if more folks would just figure this out.

 

Best advice I've seen in a while, enjoy the reps

 

wow........good post!

 

He'll most likely ruin the dog at that age if it is literally dominated,,,


I won't worry about it ,,, You can't control what others do,,,

 

I have to say u did a good job on this post,,u can tell that it is from your heart and head,,not your fault with this guy,,he would do it with or without u

 

"Instead of the closing the circle, we have eliminated the circle and it is going to completely destroy the breed".



I have been feeling this way for years........:mad:

more people need to WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Wonderful post!! Reps to you!! I agree, although gameness is a large part of our past, it does need to stay there. Its not something we can deny, but people interpret things wrongly in a lot of cases. These younger kids and whatnots need to see that our breed offers so much more than how game they are. They are by far the most loyal and loving companion you will ever have. They are more than just your dog, pet, working dog, whatever, they are your family. It may be in their blood to be fighters, but we should never put them in a situation to prove anything. If you do, all you are proving is how much of an ass you really are. I know it is part of these dogs, but like I said they have so much more to offer. Tommy3 you should not at all feel at fault for the way these people treated their animals, you did nothing but try to educated these people, and they have what I call "selective hearing", they hear what they want and put your words the way they want them, so it comes out what they want to hear. No matter how much we preach and teach some ass some where is going to do these stupid kinds of things. We all are doing all we can to protect our breed and in some places we are succeeding all we can do it continue to do what we are doing and pray that our breed will be accepted for what they are..A true friend to man, not a vicious beast.

 

I would say that I completely agree until BSL comes to town. You can bet your ass AC doesn't care whether that 100 pound hippo behaves, looks, IS a completely different dog than your real APBT...both are going to be banned. Hippo because he looks like what AC thinks a pit bulls is, yours because he is what a pit bull is.

 

REP POINTS FOR YOU AS WELL, EXCELLENT POST, AND I COMP. AGREE!! I HAVE A FRIEND THAT IS JUST LIKE THE GUY YOU DESCRIBED. THIS GUY WOULD HANG RAW MEAT FROM THE TREES, AND ALL OF THE DUMB OTHER THINGS THAT PEOPLE THINK MAKE THEIR DOGS "MEAN", I TRIED TO HELP, BUT WAS TO NO AVAIL :p

GOD HELP US ALL!

 

God help our dogs!

 

Oh, and to the OP...I always find it somewhat odd that folks will say if he isn't game, he isn't an APBT. Maybe I'm off in my logic, but it seems to me that the dogmen of the past would have had a litter and kept a few prospects. A dog who didn't turn out quite as expected (not game) would potentially be kept or given away as a pet...would the dogman NOT call him an APBT? He's certainly not game, but that doesn't mean he's not 100% the same frickin breed as his littermate who was.

I realize that wasn't really your point, but I trust you know what I'm getting at.

 

I don't recall anyone saying if its not game its not an APBT. unless there is something I missed,,that would be a ridiculous statement

 

Great post! I prefer to think of it this way, game does not an APBT make, an APBT may very well have the characteristic of game. Game is just a characteristic, one that was prized by dogmen throughout history, but just a trait. It is people that determine the work of their dogs and it is people that need to check their stupidity before they do irreversable damage to our dogs, if not already. What a fantastic message and a great perspective.................

 

First to JCleve-that dog is still an APBT, but that doesnt mean it should get the honor of breeding and passing on uncharectoristic breed traits. If you bred that dog to another cold dog in hopes to gain cold dogs, or anything other than gamedogs, then I refuse to call it a APBT.

To the original poster-I'm sorry for your pain and greif you are feeling. You feel that it is your problem this idiot did what he did, but its not. Chances are, this idiot would of done it eventually anyways, instead of turning your back on him, you have an obligation to our breeds safety to set him straight. If you just ignore this fellow and feel guilty about his indecent activities-he will just get worse. Everyone needs a role model of some sort. If people arent told what to do, and what is right, alot of people dont have the common sense to figure it out for themselves. The way I look at it is you can either turn your back on this man and continue letting him doing these terrible things, or you can step in and try to save him, and also your breed. You might not be a "dogman" or have that much experience, but you do know more than this guy, and you have a good heart along with it. Share the knowledge with him of why he should not of done that, and tell him what is wrong with his practices so he can learn from his mistakes.

 

good post! very insightful

 

I appreciate the positive comments everybody. The guy already heard how I felt about it. He got pretty pissed off because I told him that he probably has caused some irreversible mental damage to the dog and basically told me that I don't know what I am talking about.

This may or may not have eventually happened whether I said anything about gameness or not. Who knows?
But, either way it still happened because the idiot wanted to prove his dog game. I just feel that this knowledge regarding gameness in current breedings should be kept to those that already know about it. The Internet, in my opinion, should not be a source for millions of people to learn about it. Most people won't try to go through months of researching and searching for an experienced dogman to teach them the ropes. They are just going to throw 2 of their dogs together until one quits. This isn't right.

What harm could it possibly do to the breed if we don't speak of gameness in present terms?
Do we really want this in the mainstream?
Sure, back in the day it was all that the breed was bred for. But, the population of these dogs have multiplied a hundred fold since then and the media is watching the breed like a hawk. We do not need the owners of all these dogs trying to be dog fighters.
We sure as hell shouldn't encourage it.

In my opinion, the whole idea of gameness and the breeding thereof in current situations should fall back into the shadows where it can be sought out properly. The backyard, or city block fights performed by Internet doggers is not where it is at. This will not yield any beneficial results to the breed.

 

Tommy-You were starting to scare me for a minute there. I thought you were saying gameness has no value anymore, and it should be left in the past. But, after your last post, I found out you meant that we should let people that actually know what they're doing breed for gameness. Without gameness, all we have are AmStaffs.

 

Good post Tommy, the idiots won't stop acting idiotic I'm afraid. It is of course, no fault of your own what this guy did just as it was not your fault he bred and promoted poor quality dogs. It's hard to decide what is truely worse, trying to learn about game dogs, obviously causing them harm or breeding and selling bluffs to other punks who may or may not treat those dogs right. You did the right thing by trying to educate, some people are just morons with poor intentions. Whether the intentions are breeding bluffs for looks and $ or breeding game dogs for brawling, status or $, he is not in it for the same reasons you are and which every type of dog or breed he decideds to work with will be at his mercy. Thanks for sharing your responsible and caring opinon.