Breeding For True Finish

Why is it so hard to breed for true finish and by true finish I mean always trying to dispose their opponent quickly. In 40 years I have truly seen it but I could count it on my fingers and toes how many. I have bred Patterdales for personal fun and they showed more finish consistently than most bulldogs. I would always think what was the difference could it be the way they attack or their mental state which I will go on record most Patterdales are skittish and will bite humans and any thing with fur, and by the way they attack I mean the don't stay in hold as they bite every where and are super fast, they are bred just for hunting and finish. So why is it not so common with bulldogs? Is it because there are so many other qualities we must have with the bulldog as gameness, air, ability. In my own experience I have only bred 3 what I call true finishing types of dogs. These are the type of bulldogs that come across and hit the throat or stomach and are strong enough to stay there and close the show in under 6 to 10 minutes. When I breed the top priority is always gameness and maybe that is why I don't get finish in my dogs. The 3 bulldogs that had it never threw it in their pups. Now I know a lot of men will say dogs can have finish when the time is right if that is the case then the majority of my bulldogs have that. Is it freak litters from cold dogs or scattered bred individuals that come up with the real killers from time to time? My answer is I don't really know and if some body does please tell us. The reason I have brought this subject up is to get opinions and a truly good debate on this, I have a litter now that just turned 4 months old my main stock needed a well needed infusion of new blood I took some advice from a friend JY and put some VJ blood under a tight line bred stud of mine they bitch runs heavy in GR CH Chucky and his GR CH Face bitch which is the old Creel blood now I expected high bred vigor but I think I got more as they are all separated and the little scraps that they got in I noticed that they were all hitting the right areas my stud is extremely game and the bitch is extremely talented but not a finisher in my opinion. So back to the start what does it take to breed litters with consistent finish?

 

Interesting concept DiscoIII.. I've thought about it a lot? Wondered why people chose certain lines and crosses? what traits were they looking for, and what percentages of those traits did they achieve from their breedings? One scenario I thought of was a dog makes grand champion and suddenly the breeder decides to back his females to it, maybe overlooking other dogs with lesser reputations, but with more chance of producing the traits the breeder sought initially. Dogs sometimes like a fashion industry with designer names commanding crazy money for stud fees.. We had a run of slick head dogs during the 80's, Redeye's Charlie 2xw, Scotsman's Champion Hagar, Junkyard Boys Grand Champion Bill, pure greased lightning and near impossible to beat in UK, The common denominator between them was Reid's Skipper ROM, then just when we were beginning to recognise the trait and began to breed for it, the government banned Pit bulls in the UK under the Dangerous Dogs Act of 1991 there was other isolated cases of the same head fighting trait in Winning Way's Champion Kane and Tartan Terror's Chief 2xw, but eventually we lost it.. I've seen the throat trait you mentioned before and my god it's effective! First time I saw it I could hardly fckn believable it! Wish you the best of luck with your pups, that's good DNA you got on the ground there

 

Tartan Terror's Chief 2xw.. A great head dog.

 

First i saw that throat trait i thought surely it must be luck ... but it obviously wasn’t

 

The three finishers you experienced first hand, were they particularly aggressive dogs? Chain hitters? As in, the type that REALLY go mental at the drop of a hat?

 

None fought the chain or chewed boxes two were calm and non aggressive on the chain but would turn on when brought to the [] the other was wild to go like driving down the road and the window would be down and would see a dog and would try to jump out. The two calm ones were crosses of the Tater x Faith x Hetrick x Lightner x King Soloman x Little Java. The wild one was a half brother half sister from the Tater x Faith x Hetrick x Lightner blood. These bulldogs were bred by me but I bought a bitch from a women when I was working as a meat cutter she was getting a divorce and did not want her husband to have the dog, talking to her over the meat counter for a month I was not interested as this dog had no pedigree as in it was just so scatter bred but was house trained and new all the commands of a pet. When it was getting close to her moving out she said to me would it make a difference if I told you when I let her out at night she always bring back a dead dog from the neighbor hood and lays it on the porch and of course I said it did and here is your 50.00 dollars, this bulldog was 5 when I got her but I did not match her till she was 7, she went on to kill a dog from D. Powell of Canada which was a double bred Rocky dog Andre Giroux bred, now this was not a blow out like I stated before maybe because of her age but she hit the throat consistently for 45 min. and it was starting to show so I told Pete Hamilton to pick his dog up and save her and I would buy the first pup out of her as she was a dead game bitch. He was a big guy and he got in my face as emotions were running high and told me to mind my own business so I sent her in to finish. This bitch was bred to a Colby x Lightner stud of mine and produced a whole litter of good bulldogs with one making CH so much for famous peds. The ref is still a live and a very well known breeder of high quality dogs, he told me that night that my dog if she was shown in her prime would have easily made GR CH so it goes back to good dogs are where you find them.

 

I have a story.just one story.I am a amateur,but I am obsessed with Game Dogs.I have always tried to find a dog with finish.y'know,the one what can do it all.the best.the ultimate.I never thought I would owen it.but I have.I will never see it again.never.nor could I breed it.please understand,that I'm not American.I'm not someone that was brought up in a yard full of Bulldogs.I had to learn what a Bulldog was!!.when I had finally learnt what one was,I decided I want the best.how to get the best?.I did not no.but has luck would have it someone give me a dog!.he was 4xKaos, 4x Blackspider,4x jazzy.And I no nothing of them dogs what so ever.his first small roll was into his half brother,who was about four pounds heavier.and he bit it so hard in the head,I was shocked!.right next to the ear.after ten minutes of this(the other dog was screaming)he went into the armpit and bit shockingly hard.the other lad wanted to stop it.so we did.it was something like fourteen minutes when we stoped it.the dog was still alive.(just.lol)but I new it would not live.I never seen the lad or dog again,but I think it died.after this I was in dream world.totally captivated.it was his speed, mouth ,and brains that court my attention.he also had unreal power,and later I found he had great stamina.I could not find any dogs,but while I was looking I started researching the styles of different famous Bulldogs.I new I had a good one.but all my research found that you can't have a killer head dog???.I had rather long to wait and see.as there was not many dogs around.plus I did not,and still do not.no any body.I did get round eventually to see him do some damage.and he was awesome!.(always head first,shoulders and chest)but I new he wasn't getting the right stuff.so everything I put him on had to be huge!.lol.I didn't have a clue.but it felt cruel putting him on anything his own weight.(between 45-50??lol.)I had no one to learn me.and this was most definitely the wrong dog to learn with. but what the hell!.so he put everything under.(dogs twenty pounds heavier in about twenty minutes.twenty minutes to me is awesome!)........ I don't want to high Jack your thead.this is about "finish".I think your right DISCOIII.you must be.as I have not seen nowere near the amount you have seen.but this sort is not common.this sort immediately court my attention!.wow..when you see one like that it is mind blowing.now I only bread my paragon the once.and the pups are still to young.they have started.and I like them.I like them alot.they even remind me of there dad a bit.but they are not even in the same ball park.they don't look or act like him.they have got no we're near the same mouth as him.the male pup has a good mouth.but not like it's dad.the female pup has no mouth.but here dad's brains and strength(sort of).the male pup is high strung to fuck.a hard keeper.the female seems very shy.she so quiet you would think she was ill.when you start talking to her she jumps all over you.lol.the two of them are slightly odd.but there dad,as killer as he was.was a very well mannard animal.real smart.real affectionate.he was all so very protective over me and my wife and kids.wich,I have to admit is not good.his pups are not like that,which I like.now I no of one breeding,I will never get good ones like him.(I bread him to a inbread neice of his by the way.she's just a game plug.)but I'm just talking here,comparing what different dogs are like.I thought in my own mind I would get replicas of him.even of one breeding!.how wrong I was.it's just not like that.I'm glad about his pups,I mean if there even a quarter of what he was like,I should be able to compete.they are better then there dam.but no we're near as good as there dad.I wish they were all like him.good dogs are were you find them...you said it my man!...as I could not of bought one as good as him.that's for sure.I think this particular type of animal just comes around every now and then.(maybe every 30 years or so lol).if you watch the S.T.P. Yard video,you here him say about Bad Rosemary that you go through about a hundred dogs before you get a dog like that.(when I seen videos of Rosemary,I thought she was stupid,over hard mouth.but she seem stupid.and slow).I don't no if he is right.but he probably is.maybe they come of a long time breeding program?the one I had was not a hard keeper.he was not a screaming nut bag.but he was very evil towards other dogs,and cows,and sheep,and horses,and pigs,and even some people.but apart from that,he was very quiet and loved cats??.lol.now he was inbread for two generations.(mother/son,brother/sister).but if you check black spider and jazzys ped,you can see there's quite a bit of different blood.perhaps that's why he was like that?.I know one thing. the folks who bread or had them dogs I've just said have been slated on this very site!.and that's not nice!.well I would like to say thank you!!.no.thank you very,very much you guys!!.I don't no you from Adam but would still like to say a big thanks!!and to be honest the dog deserves more then a small story.but that's life.live and learn hey?I would like to point out the dog would not start till he was 3years old(no schooling.nothing.when he started he was a natural.).he showed a bit of aggression to a small yappy dog and that's why he met his half brother!.he started slowing down at about 8.could still finish but it would take longer.i wished I could of shown this dog to the world.but I was inexperienced.I wished I could of took the dog to high levels.but i never.a once in a life time dog??oh yes!!.though a very,very,unfortunate set of incidents,(what I can't go into.I've already said to fucking much.)the dog ended up DEAD GAME........here's to you Soze.I have your pups there open!.they look pretty good.but they will never be your equal.........good night my freind.and thank you.I miss you.........lol.your on game dog Soze.I site what the whole world can see!!!

 

All a long time ago.and all fiction.

 

4x jazzy bred ??? Which jazzy ???

 

The best stories got heart and soul in them Keep cocking yer leg dogman!

 

Should have wrote "once upon a time".
Your one of 3 type of people,but for sure you ain't who you trying to imply & I would gamble you ain't ever owned a bulldog in your life. You have for sure learned all the "sayings,words,bullshit etc etc etc",but the more you write the more you are proven who you are.
Pretty sure that dog of yours was very well known. Plenty will have saw it also. Once in a lifetime dog,eh ?? The dogs wouldn't be the dogs without people like you & I have saw plenty since this internet began.
Why dont you get yourself on Facebook with your bullshit & gathering of information. You be in a typical crowd. Search for the 2 bullshitters from the N/E,as you will all get on like a house on fire !

 

Yep finito ...something not right with him

 

Fuck you mate.you think what you will.am I arsed what you think? No!.I. am no bullshiter.what dogs you got mate??....I don't care........FUCK YOU!!.....I ain't come here to argue......I ain't ever owned a Bulldog in my life??..how the fuck do you no??.do you no me??No!..I'm not who I say I am??.lol.I have never said who I am..lol..no.I'm no legend.I admit it.are you??.proven who I am.lol.how.you don't no me from Adam mate.and to make assumptions with out meeting me personlly,is a bit crazy..last I say.as I said I ain't here to argue......Why would you wanna even
argue??...I mean who do you think I am?.do you think I'm a plod or some thing??...get a grip mate.I don't need negative bull shit from you or anyone!!.if your so much of a dogman,you should be encouraging any one who's just starting of.not trying to put them down.....lol.if I'm a bullshiter so are you!.I mean I don't know who I'm speaking to either!!.you cold be anyone!! I don't no ya....I've already said many times I'm know one....have you got a problem with me being a know one??.lol.that's your problem if you have.......

 

Lol.whatever mate.....something not right with me.you've never met me.I could say the same about you.as I have never met you.it works both ways.you might know all the doggy folk in the world.but I don't no that.were all just talking to a screen....