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Blu Merle Pit Attacks Cupcake

Discussion in 'Chit Chat' started by AceBoogie, Feb 15, 2009.

  1. AceBoogie

    AceBoogie Pup

  2. sadieblues

    sadieblues Premium Member Premium Member

    LMFAO !!!!!!!!! That dog is scary looking LOL. He was really wanting those cup cakes looks like he was ready to go nutzo :D
  3. bahamutt99

    bahamutt99 CH Dog

    That's funny, but you can tell someone did some creative editing and looped the clip. She didn't hold those cupcakes in front of his nose that long. LOL
  4. With or without loops, very funny indeed. That dog has some Catahoula in it...I love their eyes!
  5. Hardhead

    Hardhead Big Dog

    Not even close to a "blue merle pit".
  6. chinasmom

    chinasmom CH Dog

  7. AceBoogie

    AceBoogie Pup

    Yup I know I was Just pulling you chain
    by standerd thers no such thing as a blu merl pit
    something was add to give them that color
    and dogs that color were know to have way tomany health problems
  8. ABK

    ABK Rest In Peace

    Oy vey. Sometimes this board is stuns me.

    1: No one has yet proven there was any added breeds to get the merle color. It is possible, but not yet a proven fact. And please don't say they just started popping up in the last few years. They just started getting POPULAR in the last few years. Kind of like blue. Blue was once rare & little seen until a few fad breeders got a hold of them. Now you see blues on every street corner. The same could hold true for merles.

    2: "There is no just thing as a blue merle pit." ADBA & UKC had both registered merles since both registries' inception (over 100 years for UKC & almost 100 years for ADBA). Only up until recently did they make merle a DQ & it was due to breeder problems. Do you think knowledgable dogmen like C. Bennett & R. Greenwood would register these dogs if they thought they were mixed? Now could some of them be mixed? YES. But I do not think all of them are & evidentally the powers that be at ADBA & UKC didn't either or otherwise why would they register them & in ADBA's case even make one a conformation CH.? Furthermore - every other APBT registry, to include the reputable ones (AADR, BFKC etc.) will STILL register a merle.

    3: ADBA will still to this day register offspring of a merle (don't know about UKC). For example, I breed my merle male to a black bitch & get 5 merle pups & 5 black pups. The merle pups cannot be ADBA registered, but the black ones can. ADBA will registered any pup off a merle so long as the pup is not merle in color itself. Oops, did I let a cat out of the bag? :eek:

    4: Health problems. Yes, a homozygous merle CAN have health problems. But most heterozygous merles don't have any more health problems than any other color can have. For example, whites have a higer incidence of deafness & dilutes of any color can have a higher incidence of skin problems. But little to nothing is said about that. :confused:

    5: And yes, the dog was an Aussie.

    Just some things I thought I'd throw out there. :)
  9. Hardhead

    Hardhead Big Dog

    I don't know much about blue merles and honestly don't care to but most of them around this area labeled as blue merle are just hybrid hog dogs.

  10. sadieblues

    sadieblues Premium Member Premium Member

    I have started seeing numerous american bully breeder's breeding these merle dog's for fad. God help us the merle pattern is considered a disqualification severe fault and should not be embraced or bred for at all.

    For anyone who want's to know more about the merle pattern in the breed

    By Scot E. Dowd Ph.D. ​
    The recent appearance of merle patterned APBTs and a couple breeders specializing in the "new" and "rare" color pattern has stirred up a controversy in the APBT community. The general thought among those that have been around the breed for the greatest number of years is that, these new color patterns were brought about by unscrupulous outcrossing to a separate breed such as Catahoula Leopard dogs. Several breeds are known to carry merle as a color pattern but the APBT is not one known to have ever carried this "infected" allele. What is known is that Catahoula Leopard dogs along with pit bulls are often used in the sport of hog catching and it is known that crosses of these breeds have been made in attempts to produce more competitive catch dogs.
    The following c omments from the APBT standard committee provide prelude to a brief essay on the merle locus in relation to the APBT
    Walt Pasko "I feel the emergence of the merle color pattern in our breed has raised the questions of how it was introduced into our breed and what health problems the merle gene could cause. From all information I've read, I have to recommend that the merle color be made a disqualification in the APBT Breed Standard."
    Carol Gaines Stephens "I strongly oppose the color pattern 'merle' in the APBT since it has never been there in the past and has just recently risen it's ugly head with the popularity of the catch dogs in the south. I have spoken to several people from the south that say that they know and do so themselves, cross the APBT with the Louisiana Catahoula Leopard Dog to make a better catch dog. If the gene has never been present in all these decades/centuries then how did it finally come about just recently? I am a firm believer in leaving the standard the way it was originally, but when something surfaces that has no rhyme nor reason, then I think we have to address the matter."
    Cheryl Larum "I am in agreement with the other committee members on the merle issue"
    Scot E. Dowd " First it should be noted that there are ways that the merle can remain hidden such as within a complete phaeomelanic coat where the merle would not be evident, also there are cryptic merles, however this absolutely would fail to explain the relatively recent appearance of this color pattern in the APBT. I feel that another allele with defined health problems associated with this locus, is not a positive thing for our breed"
    The following information is submitted on behalf of the NAPBTA standard committee - Scot E. Dowd
    There are two issues of concern with the merle as a color pattern. The first, as mentioned, is that merle pattern in the APBT may have come about through unethical outcrossing to another breed of dog. This practice would then have been followed by falsely registering such a outbred animal either with the ADBA or UKC as a purebred APBT. Such false registration would be termed hanging papers. The other issue is related to the health aspects of the Merle allele. Here I will try to answer the predominant questions that arise regarding the merle allele and the APBT without making a judgment of my own other than that expressed above.

    Why is a color or color pattern so important to the stewards of the breed?

    The entire process of coloration and color patterns in dogs starts with embryonic development. The specific cells that become melanocytes (pigment producing cells) are derived entirely from the neuronal crest of the embryo. This essentially means that pigment cells are directly produced along with the same cells that give rise to the nervous system. Though not entirely true, it can be assumed that if you have defects in genes associated with color genetics you might also have nervous system defects because both types of cells are derived from the neuronal crest. This provides a logical genetic indicator and explains why it is likely that certain dilute or patterned dogs, such as extreme piebalds, or other types of homozygous dilutes common in the APBT, as well as those that may be carrying the Merle pattern are prone to psychological, neurological and/or immunological problems found in other breeds that carry these alleles.

    What is merle?

    Merle like other dilution alleles acts to lighten whatever color would otherwise have been expressed. However, with merle the lightening effect is not spread evenly over the coat, but produces patches of undiluted color (dappled pattern) scattered over the dog's body. The merle gene when heterozygous Mm (only one copy of the gene) on an otherwise black dog produces a blue merle which is phenotypically a bluish gray dog that is dappled with full color black spots. A homozygous or MM dog (carrying two copies of the merle gene), often called a double merle or a homozygous merle, will be a mostly white dog (similar to an extreme Piebald). The normal state of the merle locus is dual recessive mm and completely lacks the offending transposon resulting in normal color.

    Maybe merle has been in the breed throughout its history and only now is it being noticed?

    The response to this question is also genetic in nature. The genetic and phenotypic nature of the Merle locus and the merle allele (M) is such that it would not remain unnoticed in a breed and suddenly appear. It would take crossing to another breed that carries the merle allele for it to be transferred into the breed. The reason it could not remain invisible or hidden is because the Merle allele is expressed with incomplete dominance. This means, if it is within the genome at all, even in a heterozygote (one copy of the gene) state, it is still expressed and evident. The M allele is not found in all breeds; in fact most breeds do not carry it. Finally, this specific transposon cannot arise spontaneously or through mutation as some have claimed.

    What are the health problems associated with the merle allele?

    The merle allele like a couple other dilution factors when expressed in a homozygous state is correlated to psychological, neurological, and usually immunological issues. Here I will mention a few of the issues. The first are eye development problems that are superficial in nature affecting appearance such as heterochromia iridis (A difference of color between the iris of one eye and the other), thus a dog with one brown and one blue eye has heterochromia iridis. Note that this defect is not necessarily or always indicative of having the merle gene because it can also be found in dogs with extreme piebald or double blue dilution for example. In addition to superficial indicators there are also major effects such as absence of tapetum lucidum. Tapetum lucidum is a reflective substance that lines the back of the dogs eyes. This reflective structure acts like a mirror and reflects light back through the retina, like a satellite dish giving the retina two chances to catch the light. Dogs that lack tapetum licidum have night blindness or reduced ability to see in low light. Another defect is lack of retinal pigment and microphthalmia. Microopthalmia (smaller than normal eye) is described as dogs having prominent third eyelids and seemingly small eyes which appear recessed in the eye socket (enophthalmos). Another problem known as coloboma is actually a physical cleft in a portion of the eye, particularly the iris . In addition to the eyes which are a key indicator of neurological defects, there is also evidence for effects on the ears that result in reduction in auditory sensitivity or complete deafness because the merle color locus exerts epistatic effects on ear development. Excessive white or dilution in a dog of any color can be a warning sign of potential hearing problems. If there is no pigment in the inner ear the dog will be deaf; white ears are more likely to lack inner ear pigment.
  11. sadieblues

    sadieblues Premium Member Premium Member

    More technically, what is the genetic explanation of the merle pattern?

    The merle allele is considered to be caused by a transposon or transposable element. A transposon is a piece of DNA that has the potential to actually jump out of, or excise from the gene it has infected (disrupted), during cellular division and genetic DNA replication. This means that while melanocytes are migrating from the neuronal crest during embryonic development the merle transposon can remove itself from the gene in some of the melanocytes when they are derived and produce normal coloration on those parts of the coat to which they migrate. Thus, the merle allele acts to cause eumelanic areas in the coat, to become diluted, but other areas to be fully and intensely pigmented. Such fully colored areas occur in scattered patches throughout the body. The merle locus is autosomal (not carried on one of the sex chromosomes) acting as a dominant mutation (it is expressed in all dogs that carry this gene). It should also be noted that genetically such transposons do not arise spontaneously but must be passed from sire and/or dam to offspring. This means that if the APBT did not carry this allele to begin with, then only through outcrossing to another breed, that does carry this transposon, could it be integrated into the APBT genome.

    Thus, we as members of the National American Pit Bull Association are presented with the issue of a dilution pattern that may have been introduced into the breed by unethical conduct. As stewards of the breed we have to choose to continue to honor our current standard and allow this color pattern or to change the standard to reflect that merle is not an acceptable color pattern for the breed.
  12. AceBoogie

    AceBoogie Pup

    And it says that white dogs are frowned apon, but if my memory serves me right its not the all white dog, but the ALBINO coloration which is a white dog with pink nails and pink eyes
  13. Renee

    Renee Big Dog

    There's another clip of the "after." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flCk4zuEF90

    Gotta wonder exactly what was going on in Stain's head as he walked away. "Who brought that bitch with the funny accent into MY house?"
  14. bahamutt99

    bahamutt99 CH Dog

    Perhaps Stains was pondering his lack of luck when the names were being handed out. LOL
  15. Nope it's a shaved Aussie! :p Says on the show.
  16. ABK

    ABK Rest In Peace

    Sadiesblues, I wonder if Mr. Dowd talked to this dog man ...

    When I bred Ripper x Sambella

    I waited on the pups and she was having them one night at 2am in the morning I was sitting there helping her have the pups. As time went on I fell asleep and woke up in my chair that morning to see a site I have never seen in all over 20 years of breeding bulldogs. There was six red dogs with black mask and there was one black dog in that litter and then sitting right there in the middle of all of this was the d*mn-est thing I had ever seen.

    A pup that was blue in color but spotted blue not solid. He looked like somebody had pinned him on the wall and got some of the deepest darkest blue paint there is and slung it on him as it was in big splotches and then it looked like some body painted under that with a light gunmetal blue solid and he had the deep dark blue patches also in little spots all over his body.
    (In short, he was a blue merle. My notation.)

    Now if that is not enough as the dog got older he was a deep deep blue in color but that was in the shade if you took him to the sunlight he looked reddish in color and had a reddish tint.

    I have seen blue dogs but this one was different and I could not figure it out. I started asking questions and started researching this and to my amazement a man from another country sent me a hand painted painting of bulldogs of nearly 200 years ago and the painting looked exactly like the dog that was in that liter of dogs same color same nearly every thing. He said that what had happen is that in that litter some how some way a gene has come from way, way, way back nearly two hundred years of breeding to that same very type dog that was called the Blue Phal fighting dog of nearly two hundred years ago.

    Now what are the chances of that? Never seen it before and will never see it again I am sure. The pup died at about five months old for some unknown reason. He was healthy as could be but one morning walked out side and he was dead in the kennel for no reason at all.

    I myself don't give a hoot what people say about genetics if you are breeding a white like of dogs and there is a black dog in that gene pool some were maybe 200 years ago it makes no difference if that gene come forward them white dogs are gonna produce a black dog. If you are breeding a black line of dogs for 50 years noting but black and there is a white dog in that dogs bloodline some were again maybe two hundred years if that gene come forward you are gonna have a white dog if it connects.

    It does not happen often but I AM sure but it is d*mn sure a possibility, that is for sure. I have pictures of that pup and had people emailing me from all of the country. Not just bulldog people other breeds of dogs asking about that pup because that pup was never bred for color. He was bred for other things. It is a difference if you are breeding for color and you are not as to what can happen.


    The School Teacher

    In short, this is a direct record of merle occurring in our breed via spontaneous mutation.

    I also wonder if he has spoken to this man:


    The modifier he speaks of *may* be carried by the APBT as well. The merle modifier is in other breeds as well, most notably, Dachunds. Also take the picture test, it is absolutely amazing. :)

    EDIT: I'm sorry I forgot to add this - BLUE is a "dilution pattern" too. Like merle, blue is not a color in itself, but rather is a mutation of the color black. Merle results in incomplete dilution while in blue it results in complete dilution. And as I'm sure you already know this, but blue is directly connected to at least one genetic defect, that being Color Dilution Alopecia (CDA) commonly known as "blue dog syndrome." In fact, CDA is so bad some breeds that blue is often bred away from & in some cases like that of the Miniature Pinchers, blue is an automatic DQ.
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 15, 2009

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