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APBT blood in "old time" Staffordshire bull terriers

Discussion in 'Staffordshire Bull Terriers' started by JBL, Jan 31, 2014.

  1. Tigerlines

    Tigerlines Banned

    Re: APBT blood in "old time" Staffordshire bull terriers


    None of the skulls are from the bullbaiting period and the museum lists the dates when the skulls are from.

    Lists the different areas with different dogs and different ideas of of baiting you stated ,and we will compare and see truth.

    The artist,studied and painted REAL animals in REAL sport,and is very FAMOUS for doing so, he wrote about the dogs and their types, Dusty Roads has an ALKEN print as an avatar, of a dog at a bait that has a face and jaw of a bull and terrier not a bulldog, i asked him the question, if you wish to answer for him, go ahead.
     
  2. Tigerlines

    Tigerlines Banned

    Re: APBT blood in "old time" Staffordshire bull terriers

    Blue8Bell, if you want to have a serious discussion, lets not play the stratton trick of listing anything and everything that remotely looks like a bull breed, you list only one pic with dogs baiting, its for you to list its origin date and context, and we will compare it to written history before during and after to see the truth.
     
  3. BLUE8BULL

    BLUE8BULL CH Dog

    Re: APBT blood in "old time" Staffordshire bull terriers

    The paintings and prints are there to see...so ya think there fake/??i say bulldogs/pitdog's..call em what ya want they came in diff;sizes back then,,true the smaller size,came to be favored,,but it was not all-way's like that...i have that painting of that first gen bull+terrier ....but if ya think?? I'm going thru hundreds of pictures/etc...for what to prove what... Skeets was not a dog....i begining to think were jus heading to history of the the dog according to tl.....so your telling us every thing the artist said of his paintings.......what exactly are ya trying to say in layman terms/???
     
  4. Tigerlines

    Tigerlines Banned

    Re: APBT blood in "old time" Staffordshire bull terriers

    Blue8Bull,, you list only one print of multiple large dogs attacking a donkey in the middle of nowhere watched by one man on horse, hardly the pinnacle of BULL BAITING or worthy of any serious comparison to a real bulldog of 30-50lb baiting a 1000-2000lb conditioned baiting bull before a crowd of thousands.
     
  5. bamaman

    bamaman GRCH Dog

    Re: APBT blood in "old time" Staffordshire bull terriers

    So you think these motherfuckers sprouted out of the ground one day and said here I am , right ?
     
  6. BLUE8BULL

    BLUE8BULL CH Dog

    Re: APBT blood in "old time" Staffordshire bull terriers

    ...no...lol....they fell out of cider-apple trees....
     
  7. Tigerlines

    Tigerlines Banned

    Re: APBT blood in "old time" Staffordshire bull terriers

    In theory yes, its generally acknowledged even by those of a religious persuasion the earth and all life on it started with the big bang and the earth precedes life on it even in biblical accounts.

    Bull blood is canine blood,British blood, from the broad mouth dogs that so impressed the Romans on invasion,they took them back to their amphitheaters were they were matched into the best of the known world.Canines are not wolves.

    Evolution works off two principles, natural selection and sex selection.

    Whether man replaces nature is entirely irrelevant, the same principles hold true.

    The Celts didnt make the broad mouth dogs, their genetics did through natural selection,and sex selection based on combat and display, and still do to this day.
     
  8. Tigerlines

    Tigerlines Banned

    Re: APBT blood in "old time" Staffordshire bull terriers

    post "87" is a reply to Bamaman
     
  9. bamaman

    bamaman GRCH Dog

    Re: APBT blood in "old time" Staffordshire bull terriers

    Well bud I hate to bring you the bad news but it just ain't so ! These dogs couldn't survive without man .
     
  10. bamaman

    bamaman GRCH Dog

    Re: APBT blood in "old time" Staffordshire bull terriers

    My bad....my last post was to TL ..
     
  11. Tigerlines

    Tigerlines Banned

    Re: APBT blood in "old time" Staffordshire bull terriers

    No doubt the animal couldnt survive without work,hence COMBAT in sex selection in evolution,and PIT RULES created by BRITS adapted in its former colony American to cajun rules.

    They could easily survive without man,your issue is gameness, man hasnt increased gameness in an animal unless he crosses in bull blood which shows its genetic basis,man has increased the means to express it through artificial selection, by measuring the heart and lungs in effort to the clock, at equal weight.
     
  12. bamaman

    bamaman GRCH Dog

    Re: APBT blood in "old time" Staffordshire bull terriers

    j
    Yea right ....a bunch of dominant hounds running around kissing each other.
     
  13. Tigerlines

    Tigerlines Banned

    Re: APBT blood in "old time" Staffordshire bull terriers

    What dominant hounds kissing?............take any breed you like and match him into nature that has survived without mans artificial selection and has no desire to dominate......and match your best man made dominant canine pound for pound to see who dominates who and whose SPIRIT is real..........no man or man made breed has ever dominated nature and never will.
     
  14. bamaman

    bamaman GRCH Dog

    Re: APBT blood in "old time" Staffordshire bull terriers

    Mother natures animals first instinct.is to survive...Bulldogs lack that instinct due to man.
     
  15. Tigerlines

    Tigerlines Banned

    Re: APBT blood in "old time" Staffordshire bull terriers

    Plenty of proven game dogs showed their instinct to survive by quitting cold or jumping the wall......and throw more curs than true game dogs in their progeny....so game dogs dont lack the instinct TO SURVIVE its the complete opposite, their fighting for their life and the right to procreate......and neither does man lack the instinct to survive even when he goes to war and willing gives his life fighting despite brutal injuries,brutal pain,brutal suffering, and brutal loss of life at a far higher intensity for a far longer duration than any animal.
     
  16. Tigerlines

    Tigerlines Banned

    Re: APBT blood in "old time" Staffordshire bull terriers

    thanks for the chat Bamaman, ill be back tomorrow.
     
  17. BLUE8BULL

    BLUE8BULL CH Dog

    Re: APBT blood in "old time" Staffordshire bull terriers

    ...so are you saying the romans...never baited animals and never had war dog's,before they invaded britan,the dogs the roman's talked about were belonging to the celtic tribe's of the islands.....of which fleet-footed hounds were some,,it just ain't all british blood,,,do you think there was no trade before the romans even came,,do you know any the legends/story's off ancient britian/ireland/scotland/wales,,,the amount that concern the dog/etc........whats the use....yawn.....
     
  18. Tigerlines

    Tigerlines Banned

    Re: APBT blood in "old time" Staffordshire bull terriers

    "What if you choose to penetrate even among the Britons? How great your reward, how great your gain beyond any outlays! If you are not bent on looks and deceptive graces (this is the one defect of the British whelps), at any rate when serious work has come, when bravery must be shown, and the impetuous War-god calls in the utmost hazard, then you could not admire the renowned Molossians so much." Grattius Faliscus

    "Although the British dogs are distinguished neither by colour nor good anatomy, I could not find any particular faults with them. When grim work must be done, when special pluck is needed when Mars summons us to battle most extreme, then the powerful Molossus will please you less and the Athamanen dog cannot measure up to the skill of the British dog either. ” Grattius Faliscus

    British dogs "that can break the backs of mighty bulls." Claudian
     
  19. Tigerlines

    Tigerlines Banned

    Re: APBT blood in "old time" Staffordshire bull terriers

    House of Commons - Animal Cruelty Bill 1832

    212. You have no doubt in your own mind that this is a general practice?— I have seen from 25 to 80 cats lying dead at once in back places of a morning, all apparently as if they had been fresh skinned.
    213. Do you know whether it is done with regard to dogs?—I have seen a great many carcasses of dogs lying about in the same way; I have seen them burying dogs frequently in Bow Common; in fact I stopped a man one day; he had a bag with him; I made him turn it out, and he had three dogs, and was going, on Bow Common to skin them; he told me they had been bit by mad dogs, and I had no proof to the contrary.
    214. Were they dead ?—Yes.
    21 ft. And skinned?—Not skinned; he was going to skin them.
    216. Do you see acts of cruelty frequently towards dogs?—There is a great deal of cruelty towards dogs; I know a man who keeps dogs in his own house for fighting; he has a fighting pit.
    217. What is his name?—Hemmings.
    218. Have you ever given the assessor notice?—No, it is known by many, because the other night there was a dog fight, and they got out of the coach on my beat; he was tied up in a handkerchief, his jaws were broke, and his legs were bleeding terribly; he belonged to a pork butcher in High-street, Shadwell; Hemmings it was who seconded the winning dog.
    219. Do felons and criminals, and persons of that description, resort to these sort of places, dog fights ?—Yes, and even in the afternoon at these private pits, which I know Hemmings to have. When I have been on duty in Dockstreet I have seen people going in frequently of bad character, and once, for curiosity's sake, I went in myself; it is a room boarded all round, and made a pit of; all boarded up aslant, so that the dogs cannot come out.
    220. To keep the dogs in the fighting place ?—Yes, and they have got forms one above another, as it is in the playhouse.
    221. The worst description of persons attend there?—Yes, dog fanciers and men of bad character; I have seen bad characters go in frequently.
    222. Do you know at all what the number of pits in London is ?—I do not; there used to be one in the New Inn, Tottenham Court Road. I know there used to be a deal of it carried on there, but I have not been there for two years.
    223. Should you say there was a dozen of these pits in London?—Yes.
    224. More?—Yes.
    225. Have you any means of judging?—No.
    226. There are many private ones with which you are unacquainted ?—Yes.
    227. Have you seen any cruelty practised towards dogs in the streets?—Yes.
    228. Not at all necessary?—Yes.
    229. Do you know instances in which cruelty is practised by butchers' or bakers' boys?—I have seen butchers' dogs coming up the Commercial Road, driving and flogging the dogs, and the dogs gasping ready to drop. I have gone up and checked them for so doing, and if I had the power, I would have brought them up before a magistrate.
    230. If you had the power you would have brought them up?—Yes.
    231. You did not feel yourself authorized in so doing?—No, because there is no law as I know of authorizing me to do so. I saw two great chaps the other day put quarters of beef into one of these trucks, drawn by two dogs,
    and and one of them was cutting the dogs with a whip, going at least, I should think, at the rate of five or six miles an hour.
    232. For how long?—From opposite Cannon Street Road,I went over and pulled one of them out of the cart, and told him he ought to be ashamed of himself for so doing.
    233. What was he in the cart ?—Yes.
    234. He was most unmercifully driving them beyond their strength ?—Yes.
    235. Was he cutting them in such a manner, that if you thought the law authorized you, you would have taken him up ?—Yes.
    236. Do you not see the proprietors of omnibuses driving beyond the strength of the horses sometimes ?—There are very few omnibuses on that road; there is only one omnibus and one coach. About the New Road I have seen them drive very fast, and go by one another, but I have not been on that road lately.
    237. You know they are easily punished?—Yes.
    238. And you know that the legislature had provided a remedy for that purpose?—Yes we know we are justified in doing it if we were to see the horses in a gallop.
     
  20. Tigerlines

    Tigerlines Banned

    Re: APBT blood in "old time" Staffordshire bull terriers

    James Yewen, called in; and Examined.

    239. I Believe you are an inspector of the Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals ?—Yes.
    240. Will you state any specific acts of cruelty which have come under your knowledge with regard to dogs or cats or other animals ?—I was attending the Westminster pit some time ago where I live in Duck-lane; three years ago I witnessed a great deal of cruelty. There used to be dogs fighting together till they were nearly dead; when they have fought so long as to be unable to rise, they were put into a tub of water, kept for the purpose, and then set to fight again. Badgers likewise I have seen very much tore; all the sides and breast and head part where the dogs had bit them, was all in a gore of blood, and some places had began to putrify. I have seen likewise great cruelty lately with dogs regarding the breaking of them into these trucks j I have seen many boys with large sticks, beat the hind legs; I saw them beat one poor dog till they lamed him.
    241. Wantonly and cruelly ?—Wantonly and cruelly, because the dog was not used to the truck, therefore it was wantonly.
    242. I think you are inspector to the Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals ?—Yes.
    243. Do you receive any pay ?—Yes.
    244. Are you aware of an advertisement that was sent to the Times newspaper ?—Yes.
    245. The gentlemen who have come forward to give evidence, do they receive any remuneration for the evidence they give ?—Not as I know of.
    246. They will be paid for their time ?—I do not know; I myself am a regular servant; I am paid as a regular servant.
    247. Do you think the state of Smithfield Market better than it was ?—Since the new police have been about, I have not seen the cruelty there formerly was. I have been much pleased with the conduct of some of the drovers; they have spoken to me; I have great knowledge of some of them, and they have been very thankful, the master drovers, because the butchers say the meat is much better than it was formerly, which they attribute to the better conduct of the drovers.
     

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