A World Perspective- Is our box getting Smaller? APBT,Tosas, Bully Kuttas, & Kangals.

Re: A World Perspective- Is our box getting Smaller? APBT,Tosas, Bully Kuttas, & Kang

Mr lee, i disagree with that statement, the apbt is the best as what it does pound4pound, now that doesnt mean, it has super powers, even if he comes from super game lines and is a proven game dog himself, put that pitbull against another dog that is used in the pit , but heavier, lets say an ovarka , kangal or tosa inu , most likely the heavier dog will win, thats why the old timers made the rules for the game to be in weight classes.

Ps, Now if the show goes for over 10min, maybe less, the pitbull could come out on top as its barely getting ready for fun ...................

 

Re: A World Perspective- Is our box getting Smaller? APBT,Tosas, Bully Kuttas, & Kang

iam sure the fight is going to go will beyond 10min...and the big dog will trier out at 10-20min for sure ... the bigger dog is just going to sit there and get bit..i have seen many video of dog fights and in must case that what happen. but if the big dog was to get lucky and got a hold on the front legs it going to be a bad battle for the small dog because his going to be fighting with only 3 legs...

 

Re: A World Perspective- Is our box getting Smaller? APBT,Tosas, Bully Kuttas, & Kang

Reference to this old post / APBT should not be changed If a person sees how these large dogs scrap,it not like an APBT. Other dogs mentioned and other large type Russian fighting dogs fight to dominate and look to stop when apparent from opposing dog . APBT at best are dead game and even average APBT have more true fighting hart then these big dogs they don’t look to stop the scrap.Even when the smaller APBT doesn't seem to look like they have the win you cant say they lost either the APBT does the breed proud

 

Re: A World Perspective- Is our box getting Smaller? APBT,Tosas, Bully Kuttas, & Kang

tosa's normally go till one sings then it's over.

 

Re: A World Perspective- Is our box getting Smaller? APBT,Tosas, Bully Kuttas, & Kang

While I totally agree that the APBT is the best human creation for dog-dog confrontation, we also need to consider the rules for which each was created. For example, the Tosa Inu was bred to be quite, strong, persistent, AND straight-forward. The rules they fight under make it difficult to win. Any kind of sound or turn will end the fight. The dogs are huge but can move well [for their size]. IMHO, the Tosa is the best BIG dog and APBT is best pound-for-pound. A few years ago I saw a short video of a Champion Tosa (HUGE MO FO) that was being walked to or from the ring and unfortunately was walked too close to an a fighting APBT. Needless to say, the Tosa destroyed the APBT very quickly. This was the case even while several man held it and tried to pry the small dog from its mouth. From watching the video, I believe the APBT survived.

 

Re: A World Perspective- Is our box getting Smaller? APBT,Tosas, Bully Kuttas, & Kang

A heavyweight, perhaps a middleweight, game Tosu is certainly going to be more powerful than a game 45lb APBT. Do you think Joe Louis was more powerful than Ray Mancini? I'd say YES.

Is a grizzly more powerful than a black bear? I'd say YES.

Is a tiger more powerful than a couger? I'd say YES.

Now who do you think would win the prize for climbing, and why. For jumping, and why. For weight pull, and why. Then tell me how it relates to POWER as a singular intity. If NOTHING else matters - an elephant is more powerful than an ant ---I don't get this statement. Of course a bigger equally fit competitor is going to be more powerful than a smaller as fit competitor in ANYTHING.

 

Re: A World Perspective- Is our box getting Smaller? APBT,Tosas, Bully Kuttas, & Kang

i thought an ant is stronger an elephant i just cant remember......lol on the tip of my tongue

 

Re: A World Perspective- Is our box getting Smaller? APBT,Tosas, Bully Kuttas, & Kang

herein lies the problem- comparing apples to oranges.
~technically~ an ant IS stronger than an elephant

and have you ever watched the strongman competitions? its not the muscular guys that win, moreoften than not- its the guys who are more well rounded, not just pure muscle

 

Re: A World Perspective- Is our box getting Smaller? APBT,Tosas, Bully Kuttas, & Kang

Technically Power = E (energy in joules)/t (time in seconds), so if you look at the elephant and the ant as non-relative forces, the elephant can generate more energy due to it's mass (E energy = mass x C squared) where C is the speed of light. So with ALL THINGS BEING of no relavence the elephant is more powerful than the ant.

If you want to start bringing in "relevence" the equation becomes weighted, just like what folks here are doing when they are not weighing the relavence of the "conditions" that you would compare the APBT to another breed of fighting dog. I think Tex describes it beautifully both from a practical and realistic perspective.

Hey, when you think about it how would you call one dog more "game" than another....I'd say with relevence and subjective judgement from someone qualified to make those assessments.

 

Re: A World Perspective- Is our box getting Smaller? APBT,Tosas, Bully Kuttas, & Kang

some light reading on geometry and physics...

http://www.ftexploring.com/think/superbugs_p2.html

 

Re: A World Perspective- Is our box getting Smaller? APBT,Tosas, Bully Kuttas, & Kang

Why thank you, I believed we covered this in physics 101 as an undergrad, and then touched again in Quantum Mechanics, and Particulate Physics (and many more) as a Grad student, the article is a bit sophmoric but I think I can see your misguided point. Take out Websters and read the definition of relevance, then reread your quaint little article and understand this (one of many stated conditions of RELEVANCE):


According to my estimation using the relationships described above, you now weigh 3.2 milligrams. Based on the change in cross-sectional area of your muscles you can now lift 488 milligrams.
That's almost 153 times your weight!
Now you are 3 times stronger than the whimpy ant!

In my statements of fact - there CAN BE NO RELEVANCE, thus you must look at everthing in the NON RELEVANT state...one purity to another WITH NO MITIGATING factors or comparitive forces. The weight reference is bringing in the relative factor of comparitive force, the force on the ant vs the fiorce on the elephant, I am DISREGARDING that for a baseline of conditions by which to compare, thus bringing in relevance and meaningful comparison. Eliminating the NON ABSTRACT. The point being my clever young friend to do so as you so naively pointed out probably makes no sense, the point being to compare phenomenon such as power or strength, the abstract must be quantified for to speak of it without (now follow me here) RELEVANCE makes little sense in a practical world.

Thus terms like "All things being equal".....connecting the dots yet? (BTW that means don't look at any other factor other than the one I say, beacuse everything else is equal, even if it makes no sense as a stand alone concept)

 

Re: A World Perspective- Is our box getting Smaller? APBT,Tosas, Bully Kuttas, & Kang

Here's some video clips of Tosa's matched.

Click on video 2 on the top, not in the boxes.Towards the end of the video, is this how they usually break them apart???:eek:

http://www.fightingtosa.com/video.html

 

Re: A World Perspective- Is our box getting Smaller? APBT,Tosas, Bully Kuttas, & Kang

Oh Rally -

I see you looking, so to spare myself from your next lesson on higher level physics or math *sigh* lets see if you are a visual learner, intuitive is out.

Take a 45 lb APBT

Take a 110 lb Tosu

Other than the difference in size ---ALLTHINGS ARE EQUAL ----- not realistic but for the purposes of defining a meaningful comparison - do it.

Which dog would you expect to have more power?

Now remove the "all things are equal rule" and decide what is meaningful to quantify and qualify the comparison, use those characteristics to assess the ability of the dogs, then the breeds in a RELEVANT fashion. Then let the games begin. It is now subjective.

That was my only point, and so far Tex had the best answer IMO.

 

Re: A World Perspective- Is our box getting Smaller? APBT,Tosas, Bully Kuttas, & Kang

OMG!!!!!! I just spit moutainDew all over the place I was like what the hell are they sprayin on the dogs then WOLF they lit up like gunpowder. Im still laughinf my a$$ off. Ever heard of a break stick. How bout some one send a vid on how to use one maybe you will save some poor sloppy dogs eyes. J

 

Re: A World Perspective- Is our box getting Smaller? APBT,Tosas, Bully Kuttas, & Kang

it is often frowned upon to match a bulldog into a non bulldog, lets truely make this comparitive playing field equal.
so for your little arguement lets just say 40# bulldog and 52# bulldog...
which one will have more "power"?( which is not the same as strength)
you still cant rightfully answer the ? because there are ( and always will be) to many variables. the constant is far outweighed by the variable.
if not, then it stands to reason that a dog that weighs 39.25# will always beat a 39.10# dog simply based on your principle that a larger mass/weight yields greater power. and history is against you there. look at just about any weight pull-its generally the smaller dogs that win

 

Re: A World Perspective- Is our box getting Smaller? APBT,Tosas, Bully Kuttas, & Kang

LOL Marshall619, thanks for "bringing it back". lol, lol

Those folk are from Korea. The sport is younger there and still needs improvement. If memory serves me right, that was a first lesson for one of those dogs. The Japanese do use breakings sticks.

One major difference between the sport in Japan and Korea is that the Japanese do not bet on dogs but Korean do as much as possible.

 

Re: A World Perspective- Is our box getting Smaller? APBT,Tosas, Bully Kuttas, & Kang

You would make a terrible scientist.

And for the record this CANNOT be an experiment because YOU ARE CORRECT AND YOU CANNOT make all things equal. We are theorizing here, designing up the "terms and conditions" of a meaningful comparison, by which we could draw some meaningful conclusions about the comments being made about the ability of the APBT vs the Tosu as a fighting dog and breed--- I say talk to Tex, he looks to be quite educated about both, he has made some interesting comparisons with the proper mitigators and substantiated those observations with REAL LIFE experience....hmmmmmmmmmmmmm And I would hope we are not pointlessly arguing, we are exchanging ideas..or at least throwing them out on the table for all to see.

but all things are NOT equal, to say they are,

I am not saying they are, I am saying exclude them by assuming they are and try to predict what could be....

even for the sake of arguement is pointless,

Not pointless if it makes you think, which is what a theory is designed to do...you have not gotten out of the box yet, try it you might like it, hell with thinking like yours we would all still believe the earth is flat

and being someone with a higher education that likes to tout it about like a badge of courage, one would think you would know that there is no effective control for this experiment

I did not tout my higher education until you presumed I needed a lesson in physics and math...guess I didn't, at least not from you.....bump

As stated before this was not an experiment.....it is an exchange of ideas and theories

 

Re: A World Perspective- Is our box getting Smaller? APBT,Tosas, Bully Kuttas, & Kang

That aint the same.......no scratches, bad signs by both dogs, handlers dont do shit, matches are too short, dogs turning,etc....the list goes on.

Nothin like a good ol fashioned bulldog........them dogs make it look UGLY a bulldog makes it look like a FINE ART!!!!

 

Re: A World Perspective- Is our box getting Smaller? APBT,Tosas, Bully Kuttas, & Kang

very informative thread. Thank you for reviviving it!:cool:

 

Re: A World Perspective- Is our box getting Smaller? APBT,Tosas, Bully Kuttas, & Kang

Your welcome