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Alligator/Alligator Crosses

Discussion in 'APBT Bloodlines' started by YoungLion, Dec 23, 2005.

  1. gilamonster

    gilamonster Big Dog

  2. promoe

    promoe Top Dog

    We have been thinking about doing a Alligator/Rufus X Tab/Floyd cross. If not we will be doing a Alligator/Rufus X ElNegro cross this summer.
     
  3. YoungLion

    YoungLion Big Dog

  4. Wasteland,
    Nice looking dogs, and I haven't seen any bred like that. I like how it they have the Nigerino blood through the Wildside stuff and it is interesting to see it with the Stonewall stuff too. All stuff that blends well. GH used the Pedro dog and others bred similar to Stonewall (i think) and mixed it in with his stock with good success (lucan). I haven't been around any of the dogs down from SUK's Clyde but hear good things. What is interesting about Stonewall and Pedro is that they are pretty heavy Honeybunch dogs but without any Jeep. Not saying that is good or bad, just interesting. Thanks for sharing man!
     
  5. Younglion,
    I ran across this ped before. I think it was the dogs name that caught my eye. I have been very curious about dogs bred like this. I have a handful of Alligatorish dogs directly from GH's yard but those are the only alligator dogs I have had experience with. I have always been interested in Limeys dogs and the garner/alligator blends. My pooches of course have Garners spike in it but no frisco/Chinaman. Those Garner crosses with Anise and Arease seemed to do well and it is cool to see the Scout stuff in there too. I read he was a solid dog. Anyway I would enjoy hearing your experience with the different Alligator strains, crosses etc. and what has worked and what hasn't. My dogs are mostly typical Hammonds Parkson dogs and I do enjoy them. Have you been around dogs dirctly off Limey's yard? Lastly,did the breeding wit Adolph happen?
     
  6. old goat

    old goat CH Dog

    You don't want to add Limey dogs to your stuff unless your breeding for color
     
  7. YoungLion

    YoungLion Big Dog

    Honestly I can't really speak on limey's entire line I have only one dog with his blood in there. Hammond's either because I this is the first one I owned with Alligator coming through any Hammond blood. And she is too young and can't speak for a whole line either way in my book.

    But I can tell you my experience with some other strains. I have had dogs that went back to the battendorf, lemaster, and grch lionhead dogs.

    The good I saw was athletic, strong, rough, smart, decent natural wind, and very game.

    What I could do without was they were big as hell, started slow on average, and lacked the finish I looked for. The % of dogs with above average Mouth and ability were low for me. But the number of cold dogs was high.

    It could have been me, where I got them from, or the individual dogs I had or any number of factors but I did like what I saw when it was crossed with good bolio/Eli . seemed to get a more complete package with less of what I could do without.

    Hope that helps. But that's just one man's experience.

    Yis
    Younglion

    Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
     
  8. younglion,Thanks for the input, much appreciated. Mine are large and I like them a lot but enjoy them more in a smaller package. I have seen some really nice ones blended with Heinzl blood and the tonka red barron stuff and they were much smaller 20-35lbs and with good structure.

    Old Goat, wow, that is interesting to hear. Has there quality declined a lot over the years or do you feel they have always been that way? That is a line you hear so much about and they almost seem like they are prestige dogs,if that makes sense, rare, sought after, surrounded by some mystic (at least to me). Not really working blood though huh?

    Again, thanks guys for the information and feedback. cheers
     
  9. YoungLion

    YoungLion Big Dog

    Correct me if I'm wrong O.G.

    But I think Goat is referring to the breeding practices used by limey. Limey is/was big on phenotype playing a role in his selective breeding.

    In my opinion Limey makes some valid points BUT breeding performance dogs based on phenotype will eventually lessen the quality of performance if you are not breeding for performance.

    I think limey believed in recreating throwbacks that look and perform like CH Alligator. That's a slippery slope in my opinion. .

    People can say what they want about GH but one thing I like about his line is that it seemed to produce producers who produced producers over time. He did that without too much concern about looks.

    Last I heard the heaviest Alligator dog he had was red or chocolate. The law dog or Race Horse dog if I'm not mistaken.

    Yis
    Younglion

    Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
     
    O.S.O. NAS likes this.
  10. YoungLion

    YoungLion Big Dog

    [​IMG]


    I didn't mention this bitch because she is heavier on the chinaman/snooty stuff. But she has the biscut and suk super rat dogs up close too which have a bit of the Hammond's blood in there. I like her alot she loves to please and is bad female.

    Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
     
  11. Younglion,

    that's a great pic and she does look like a bad girl.

    Racehorse is his heaviest Alligator male GH has and he is a really washed out buckskin looking dog that never stops moving on his chain. He is a nice athletic looking dog with some leg on him. Lucky law is his son who has also produced producers (Another Snort).

    GH seems to value genetic diversity more than Limey and maybe that is why he hasn't had to breed off his yard and of course he has always kept a pretty large yard which helps.

    I remember Limey writing an article where he was kind of putting Gary's yard down and was so shocked that his heaviest Alligator dog wasn't even black and kind of insinuated that GH didn't understand breeding or genetics or something along those lines. Anyways I know he purchased Race Horses sister (Dalotta aka 6.5k) directly from GH and years earlier purchased Ch. Candy from him as well and of course his original brood stock. Anyways I have always enjoyed the articles written by both Limey and by GH.
     
  12. YoungLion

    YoungLion Big Dog

    At one time I was talking with GH about getting the treyla and creaturette females. They were old then probably passed by now. He had this dog who was a younger stud then

    ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [124706] :: HAMMONDS' LAW DOG


    I had to go back but he's race horse's sire. As I recall he was a red/chocolate hound very high strung and was not one of GH's favorites lol.

    You are right about GH and his contribution not only to the likes of Limey but others abroad.

    He's good people and has produced some good dogs in my opinion. I got his book soon as it went to print because I have always liked his articles too. I had some old handwritten letter from him but I lost them in my last move. As honest as they come he is

    Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
     
  13. redwar

    redwar Big Dog

    YoungLion, your dogs look healthy and strong, I really like how you have elevated the doghouse barrel on that stand, very nice idea.
     
  14. Yeah, I remember GH saying he wasn't super fond of the Law dog as an individual but he must have had faith in his genetic structure. He was only bred once though. His sister is Missy Park who produced Ruf Snort who in turn has produced good brood stock for GH in the form of Gator Gal Francis, Breyla, and Expresso.

    I believe that Treyla was the last living offspring of Park Son that GH had and she had a significant impact on his breeding program through her daughter Breyla.

    That Creaturette stuff is heavier in his Eli/Snooty stuff and I don't know if that stuff is still around ? I think at one time when GH kept more dogs he kept several separate families including the Panama Red strain and the Tonka Red Baron dogs. Most of his dogs now a days is his main stay Alligator-Bully-Snooty with little doses of the Panama Red and TRB blood.

    I am interested in his newest stud; Black Jack Son , he is a son of Rachorse and brother to Zacatecas. Wouldn't mind getting something of him
     
  15. YoungLion

    YoungLion Big Dog

    Thank you very much redwar.

    Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
     
  16. YoungLion

    YoungLion Big Dog

    Honestly I can't tell you why I never acquired any from GH over the years as much as I followed his family/strains , his breeding practices, and admired him as one of the few honest gentlemen you come across dealing with these animals. I'm probably about as fimilar as one can be with his stuff (at least some of the older stuff) as one can be without having owned any from him lol

    I have been contemplating a possible Alligator/Bully/Snooty breeding in the future. I have a partner who has a good hinzel bitch and I tried to connect him with a friend I know still working some of the Eye Gatter stuff. He really likes the Eye Gatter x Bullyson stuff he has.

    [​IMG]

    Here are a couple of old peds GH sent me at one time. One I think was 11 years ago Alexander Tanner x Midgaree. I tried to buy Midgaree too lol. The other ped was more recent off kneebuster x ruff kneeser bout 3 years ago.

    I guess I'll get one from him before its all said and done. But if I don't he has taught me alot about these dogs regardless.

    YIS
    younglion

    Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
     
  17. Great stuff Younglion and thanks for sharing. I remember talking to Gary about 13 years ago and was about to pop on buying a pup from him and then life got crazy........ I think at one point I was looking at a pup off Tommy Gun. If I remember correctly I was looking for something a little heavier in the Heinzl stuff and he kind if steered me away from it and I started looking at the heavier Alligtaor-Bully-Snooty stuff. Anyways, 10 years later I picked up a couple lol. It is always a fun trip down memory lane looking at old peds and correspondences and such.

    Park Gatter produced well. A lot of fellas are having good success mixing it with the LG blood and more recently with the Keye's Meathead/Rodrock blood which goes back to Tonka so, new take on an old cross and same goes for the LG stuff (carver or Stomponato/Arts Missy blood).

    NQK seems to be doing some really fine breedings and mixing in the above mentioned blood and looks like he is going in the direction of starting his own strain at this point, not just breeding others stuff and crossing it. Cheers
     
  18. YoungLion

    YoungLion Big Dog

    Thank you for adding to the original post. And you are correct GH often spoke highly of the fella from NQK.

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  19. TROTLINE

    TROTLINE Top Dog

    Have'nt seen any of GH dogs in A while but I never saw any sick dogs looks to me he started with healthy stock and kept it that way! I still remember go'n home broke after betting against his wheeling spinning dog years ago! LOL
     
  20. I have a nice little chocolate female out of this litter that I am happy to own. ONLINE PEDIGREES :: [549066] :: FALL 2015 LEATHER LEGS X EXPRESSO intelligent little pup with drive, very shy with new people which is a trait I have seen in certain segments of the Alligator familly, but a complete lover with everyone she knows well.
     

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