Garners Ceasar

I agree with you as i have seen the same things. The crosses fixed alot of the problems ,walking away on was a huge one along with them being spooky. Yis Ole Man

 

Here is a tug of war between Kemo and Ceasor if you have not seen it yet.
Caesar vs Kemo Tugging Competition - YouTube

Another vid of Ceasar:
[video=youtube;niuzFJH9sQQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niuzFJH9sQQ[/video]

 

Say what you want...and I'm not saying your wrong...but statistics speak for themselves. I think Frisco deserves more credit from folks than he gets. He had a golden dick for a reason. Not because he produced turd eaters that piss everywhere. Sure, he was shy...and so is some of his off spring. But remember...bitches play a part to if you want to fix that. And...Frisco is getting fairly removed from the gene pool in most folks pedigree. Hell, most folks have him in the 4th or 5th gen. A lot of shit changes in 4 generations. Some people breed good...a lot breed slop. I guarantee TG wouldn't make 75% of the breedings you see with his hounds today. I'm not bashing y'all...I'm sure there's good breeders on here. Ones that really understand the blood and breed it right. But a lot breed slop...back yard breeders. That's just real talk. And you hear percents with Frisco...he did crank out a lot of pups. But let's look at how many actually went into the right hands. And that's partially TG's fault for selling dogs to anybody. But there's a lot of good bulldogs off Frisco that went nowhere do to that. Instead they stayed on the chain or was a house dog. They could have had all the potential in the world but what good is it if you don't apply it. In turn that would account for a lower %. But even with that he's still the top ROM bulldog in history. You have a lot of folks breeding for dogs that are dead and gone and they never even laid eyes on that dog. TG owned them...he knows them and what clicks with them. For most folks it's trial and error. But anyway...most Chinaman dogs and Frisco dogs you come across...well..they are result of that trial and error. There are folks who have the blood who put out bulldogs in high %. But the blood is so popular and easy to obtain they become watered down and far removed from working stock. Then those folks have no idea what they are breeding for or even have results of their breedings. If you find good working stock...it's a hard one to beat. Someone not breeding for papers so much but for results. Better results at that.

 

who is this ceaser dog ..lol

young va wat up bra !

 

Bro why you getting defensive when we just having good conversation talking about experiences. Nobody said they were turd eaters, just said they were very very shy and if you ever seen Frisco you would know he was extremely shy. Has nothing to do with ability to perform. Some of the best social aggressive hounds were turds when it came to performing. Back then it wasn’t “some” of his offspring. Majority were a bit timid. So if you want to give bitches some of the blame give them some of the credit.

Every dog gets fairly removed from the ped, that’s what happens when they die. Shit can change dramatically within one breeding or it could stay the same 4-6 generations. And that argument is every dog’s argument great & poor producers. How many went into the wrong hands? Dogs quit, you will see more quit then stay that’s the nature of the game. Regardless who had the hand behind most will quit, some just sooner than others. That is what seperates the dogman. Don’t contradict the statement, it’s Tom’s choice to sell to anybody and with that Frisco gets mass produced and some of those “wrong” hands are the ones who made ch’s or made them dogs popular.

Plenty stay on the chain and that has been savior for many of them because if asked to perform they kibble eating days would have been cut short. Every dog has all the potential in the world, some just test to see if that potential develops into fact or remains a “man if he woulda” Frisco might be the Top ROM dog (he should as much as he was bred or credited for producing) if I’m not mistaken when the SDJ stopped Jeep was at the top. Some dogs I list higher than him in producing category because they produce dogs who produced dogs. Not sure I think it’s 2 dogs that also became ROM. Which is a shame considering he had the “Gold Dick” when I think of the premiere producers its dogs who produced good dogs and who also produced good dogs. Buck produced at least 4 dogs who became ROM. Yellow had another leat 4 ROMs, Jeep had at least 4 ROMs and so on and so on. Those are Gold dicks, not knocking frisco because he produced his ass off. Got a few dogs that are Frisco x Eli from a friend. Also got some Frisco x Bolio and some Frisco x Elmo prospect. I don’t plan on breeding them but will use them.

 

Right on Rock when they die they just go further back in the ped..U said somethin bout the Hardeyes stuff in a Sorrell thread the other.I got plenty but its pass the 4th lol so never even brought it up.

 

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I'm not being defensive, hell this doesn't matter to me. It's just conversation. I state my opinion...you state yours. None of it makes a hill of beans in my book. That's what a forums about. You could have one experience with a hound...I could have another with a hound out of the same litter. In 35yrs around these dogs..I've seen plenty...from every line. Shit, my family personally owned some of the greatest in history. I threw food in their bowl as a boy. I'm just saying that I know a good one when I see it...Frisco in the ped or not...I have some good ones. All I was stating is my personal experience, opinion and statistical facts. It's all good man. No hard feelings here. I have a dog or two...Chinaman crosses that would rival some of my grand fathers best hounds. I know this because my uncle is still running those dogs. Right down from boomerang...Tudors spike...Dibo and so on. Knowing the world class dogs Baker and EJ had...I can be proud of that and the hounds I got. Those are big shoes to fill in the dog world. I've always been able to rely on them for advice even though they never ran Chinaman hounds. Shit they seen him in person lol. That kinda knowledge is a big help to me that can be handed down. Shit, they seen Frisco to for that matter aswell as the hounds I'm using to cross such as Alligator, Little Gator, Cottingam and Spike. It really does help me know the "truth" about these hounds. Not just hear say or some crap I read off the net. These old men got it down buddy...far better breeders than me. So if they tell me, that such and such dog was a good one and tell me the low down on that dog. That's what I go with when breeding within my program. I myself prefer Frisco around 25 to 40%. Mainly around 25% though. That's what is working best for me. Now I do have heavy Dynomite and Ceaser pups...they don't fit the typical Frisco mold as far as Shyness goes. As far as Bitches go...I give them lots if credit..that's what I was saying. DNA is 50/50 and I consider my bitches just as much as the studs. And yes direct Frisco off spring were timid...but that's what I'm saying...not so much anymore..they aren't his "Direct" off spring. 3-5 gen removed in most cases. But don't take none of this as me getting defensive. It really doesn't matter that much to me man. And yes, I've seen Frisco myself back in the day. We took a trip to TG's when there was a show in NC. To me he looked like he couldn't be trusted...like he would bite lol. Kept his head low, paced back and forth on the chain and looked at you with his head down. Trust me when I tell ya I didn't get close enough to see if he would piss lol. I didn't trust him and I don't think he trusted me lol. A lot if folks say he was ugly..but I didn't think he was. I think Ceaser looks a lot like him actually.

 

I know someone asked earlier to see some pics, these are the ones that I have of her. Again I can't get her to sit still, the other pics look like crap blurry etc..

 

shit bro we might have some talkin to do lol.. I've always been a fan of Sorrells dogs, hands down the smartest most athletic highest ability dogs on average I been able to see.. I would rate closest thing to them as Ozzie dogs back in the day. Just all around great dogs..That's the one regret I have for not combining with the Jeep dogs or Bolio dogs.

 

Which breeding is your Kemo pup off?

 

Sure thing man..I hope to get some Bolio in the near future by next spring if everything goes right.

 

Negra..... There was only 2 buckskin out of the litter the rest were black. I believe the other was a male can't remember right now.

 

bolio and zeke dogs are the ones you need to have . hey tennessee tell me about the tudor's spike dogs . how did they work out for y'all ?

 

Whats up Preme? How's everything going up your way? Yall boys up north been making shit happen I see.

 

Great looking pup zylonist. I have been deciding between kemo and Caeser for my next pup. I really like the buckskin one you have. Thanks for posting!

 

^^Thanks brotha, whichever of the two you decide to go with I think you will be pleased, GL

 

My buddy got a gyp off Ceaser X Crusher. She's my favorite out of the Escobedo X Berry gyp and El Negro X Miss Skull II male. This spring I'm doing a Breeding with Ceaser and my buddy will have something off Kemo coming to him next year aswell.

 

Hey Goat, the Tudors Spike/Dibo/Boomerang blood is the foundation blood for the family. That's what they have always used...with Eli crosses and a few others. That's what was whipping ass back in the day not just for them but for everyone. Everyone wanted Dibo or Dibo Eli crosses because if that. To this day my uncle has the purest strain of those dogs I've seen or aware of. Old ass blood and deepest game dogs I've been around. Suckers are ruff as hell to. I mean freaking ruff. It's that old shit man. I've considered getting a pup to do some crossing with if we can keep from arguing about something in the first 5 minutes. I'm a little bitter about some things with him. Especially how he done me when my Great Grandfather passed. So we haven't been on best of terms. But regardless...he has the best dogs I ever had the pleasure of being around. He still works them suckers old school to. Stuck in his ways...but makes some ruff as dogs for sure. You should PM me. I'd like to talk more...just not to much on here. Maybe I can shed some light for you on why I think so highly of the Chinaman dogs I got.

 

y'all did'nt keep Tudor' spike blood by itself ? most people try to do that i was just wondering if you had any experience with them ?