Innate Ability

Having a debate with a friend. He holds fast to the saying " your only as good as your competition ". I completely understand this line of thinking but I am not in complete agreement with if for a number of reasons. It is one of many sayings and blanket statements that in my opinion are often attached to faulty logic.

Everyone is entitled to their own philosophy when it comes to these animals. I hold that many of the great dogs through out history had INNATE ABILITIES long before they rose to or surpassed any level of competition. I do agree that good competition reveals how good or exposes ones aptitude. But good dog is a good dog plain and simple.

In the sport of football, great athletes go on to the hall of fame some having never made it to the big dance or becoming a champion. But they had the God given talent to set them apart from others.

I say be careful making blanket statements because you have to one day compete with one who's innate ability surpasses anything they have ever had the chance to compete against.
Trying to discount others for whatever reason prematurely can be a costly mistake.

Compete against the best but never sleep on rest.

YIS
Younglion

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I think the comp makes the dog also,,,
you can have an ace until you run into a real ace,,,

oldtimers with "an eye" know what they are looking at,,,
and might be able to hold his own circle for so long before the real test,,,
the real test is to go into the best by all means...

If your in a faster lane this might not be the case,,,
but alot of bulldog country shows are substandard to these fast lanes,,,
yes some make it out of the county so to say and are fast lane dogs,,,
but most are only as good as their comp never the less...

Innate is the case,,, until you run into one with more innate,,, or
some are born with it and you better believe others learn as they go,,,
sometimes the right schooling in the right order can be the recipe,,,
Its a rare bulldog that is born with a natural ability that dosnt need sharpened,,,
but they are individuals and your right,,, you cant blanket that...

 

Just as long as when someone is evaluating dogs, they are not thinking of the new car/truck the money from the puppy sales from the no doubt future GrCH will buy before he has reached 16 months..bwhahahaha

 

When taking a look at "competition" it is available at the local level. Or South Eastern being that im in in SC. Or to the world. I can promise anyone 1 thing is for certain. If you are willing to be fair, you will always have a fight in hand. I also must say that "Top camps " have The Best sports medicine, conditioner's ect. Lots of cash to boot. For a local Man like myself can I really expect to complete on that level ? No. Have I ever had a bulldog that could of possibly competed on a International level, ect ? I raced motocross from 1979- 1986. I turned pro in 1985. I was only as fast as the competition. I also Drag raced in 2 pro am classes. Superstock and Stock NHRA. and IHRA. I won on a local and on a National level. The sport of Matching Dogs is illegal in the the good old USA. To sum it up, Imo, if you are willing to put in the work, risk it all, you will more than likely run into some competition that will shock the hell out of you.

 

The only comp is oneself.The dogs only get as good as the man behind them. what folks think has nothing to do with anything that pretains to ones yard. The debate ends when a fella and his hound take that ride back home and the other take the ride by themself. BB

 

Good to hear from you again BB...

I agree and would say a bulldog has a combo of varibles that makes them great,,,
first and foremost,,, the breeder and the family behind the individual...
second is what YOUNGLION mentioned,,, INNATE ABILITY!!!
I would break that up into two catagories,,, ABILITY & GAMENESS...

AS CAJ.B. has mentioned on another thread,,,
when it comes to gameness they are either born with it or not to a certain degree,,,
with both abilty and gameness,,, good health,,, husbandry and "the right place and time" are also factors,,,
a bulldog might be dead game but if they arent healthy and your and idiot and they quit you might think they are a cur,,, but in better hands that dog might have been dgame and that alot of dogs are labeled curs by ignorant owners or onlookers whom might not understand the depths of the battle they were fighting before they were even raleased,,, those that face those advesaries and prevail are truly rare by all means...

sure a good bulldog can come from anywhere but a a great one comes from a good man and family,,,

the last thing that would complete a great bulldog is the INNATE ABILITY to PRODUCE,,,
which I believe the great producer produces in every litter,,,
while there are some that have that lucky litter that just clicks...
Just as rare is the great bulldog that produces the greats
as it seems there is always a not so famous sibling
that didnt carry the INNATE ABILITY but rather the INNATE ABILITY to PRODUCE...

I like your metaphor and post CorvetteDex...

Any time SLIM,,, I would like to hear your take on this fine thread...

 

what I missed was the upbringing and schooling sometimes makes the good great or vise versa,,,
which goes back to what BB mentioned,,, they are only as good as the man behind them...

except for that rare case against any adversary type that only an asshole would have...

 

Better competition raises your averages. A great dog will be a great dog regardless the circles you run in.

 

I have enjoyed reading this tread so far. It brings back memories of what I was told about Gr ch. Roadblocks Joey.6 xw.They said he made it look easy. I have enjoyed learning about this world's greatest breed.

 

You find the fastlane at the core of the game. The money is there but money isn't hard to get up. 5 or 6 short money guys and put in and get to the show.

When you run with a tougher crowd it shines a brighter light on your holes. Weaknesses get exposed. Dogs that are subpar will get weeded out. Poor keeps will get exposed. The great ones will be great in any situation. Iron sharpens iron.

 

Just like in football, we always had the toughest tests in practice. Come game day things were a breeze

 

Loved this post. It was pretty close to case in point. I understand that there are " lanes" and levels of competition. But what can't be negated is the fact that a good dog in the right hands at the right time can beat a highly esteemed "fast lane" " money lane" or whatever name people can come up with to try to make themselves feel elite. This is why I don't subscribe to alot of the ideologies concerning these dogs. Innate ability when it rises to the surface can't be denied.

What could also be exposed is the weakness in many theories based on accepting overgeneralized concepts as in the the quote above.

Going into the best you can in any sport will often bring out the best in an individual.

But the best was always in the individual. So when a person takes the gold in say boxing they rise to the occasion but 9 out of ten would have got knocked out regardless if it was on a big stage or not.


Yis
Younglion


BTW... Great replies everyone. Thanks for sharing your opinions.

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I got into a lot of School yard fights growing up. So I took up karate and Jiujitsu. My father had relatives die in WW2, so he didn't like the fact
that I was training with Orientals. He didn't BELIEVE karate could stand up to Irish bare knuckle boxing (dirty boxing).
But he told me something I never forgot..."if you want to be a good fighter, you always have to fight someone BETTER than you."
You have to fight someone bigger, stronger or faster, else you will never improve (or prove yourself) To fight someone Bigger than you,
takes HEART. Anyone can punch on a little guy. I believe "heart" is an INNATE quality. You can't learn courage.

 

As a friend sharpen's a friend !

 

My point is that there are folk not known in any circle or lane that can turn most theories on their head.

A man become a world champion mma athlete and come home pick a bar fight wit the a homegrown brawler and get laid straight.

If you go to the fastlane and win and then loose a local race to a local favorite is the local racer then fastlane or was he just better?

Most would claim it's a fluke or wouldn't even compete because of notions that they have to go elsewhere and pay $$ to find the tough or best competition.

My uncle is a hella pool player. He has won dam near ever tournament or competition he's entered. But he never turned professional and just whips the occasional show boater for kicks. When folk come in thinking this old country local fella ain't hitting on Jack he rises to the ocassion and often they leave scratching there head that such a talent was tucked away in obscurity.

I don't disagree with good comp will bring out the best and iron dose sharpen iron.

But I can't subscribe to the notion that all the iron on earth or the best iron is located in one place or lane. There will always be pockets of rich undiscovered iron off the beaten path. Hell there could be a gold mind of comp closer then you know that would shame some for 10 bags of good kibble.

Good post guys

Thanks again, your opinions and points of view are welcomed.

Younglion

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A world champion mma fighter is going to murder some homegrown bar fighter.

But I kinda get your point. But you're also comparing apples and oranges. But I kinda get your point.