choke collars vs. prong collars ??

not trying to start shit just learn or at least understand where you are comin from for my own good. i was under the impression that is was of the utmost importance that this breed know who is boss and that you need to have more rules, clearer rules and at times firmer rules than most other breeds.

there was a period of time i let my dog pull me as i wanted to let her do her thing and get out that energy and i also saw it as good work for her. for more than one reason i decided this was not what i wanted and she no longer pulls for the most part unless i let her. what i noticed when i did this was that she took me more serious and respected what i told her much more. same goes for anything that i over time learnt i had done the wrong way and decided it was time to teach her better manners. every thing i nock off the list that i let her get away with the more she respected me and the quicker she would obey me overall and better listener she is. at this point she obeys what i say when i say it at all times unless another a strange dog is involved. so my point is isnt it very important with this breed that they know whom is boss at all times... and if you let em drag you doesnt it kinda tell em they are in charge.. and even more so when you do run into something and need em to stop pulling and they will not listen, doesnt that just teach them they dont have to listen to you thus making it more difficult to listen in general as they think they are in charge. i wanna hear thought and will be corrected if you have a valid point or something to explain that makes sense and doesnt just sound like retardation and i want my dog to pull so i let it pull.

 

I agree I think a dog knowing how to heel or just not pull is important/usefull. I do let my dog pull about but when I say heel (not offten) he knows what the deal is. This being said neither a prong or a choke chain should be used if you want a dog to do things they should know it's because you want it and not because they get a treat or get neck pinch if you wanna get into the whole Respect thing.

 

that is pretty much where my girl is at but if i dont stay on the heal thing she gets outa practice and i gotta hunker back down for anywhere from a couple days to a week depending on how long it has been. i also have to factor in i have two dogs and walking them together they influence each other. if i walk either alone i can get em to do pretty much right away. the fact is i never walk em alone though. as far as respect goes i do a agree a treat or a pinch means they dont respect you like they should. i have tried everything with my girl though and at least walking her with my other dog only thing that is gonna work is the choke. not to mention she is a dog eater and if she sees a dog with no choke on i can put her in a sit all i want and hold her by the flat collar but she is gonna lung like a homicidal maniac. i put her on choke and i can put her in a sit and keep her in a sit 8-10 times. i would love to get her outa the choke as i agree respect is respect and a pinch aint respect.

 

Prong. Reason being is there is less chance of tracheal injury from an incorrectly placed correction. There are uses to using these even on a bulldog, folks. But like all tools, they should be using for training purposes or in high-distraction areas where a handler is concerned the dog may fail and are setting the dog up for success.

Manners for folks that do take their animals in public can be a good thing when we've got Big Brother BSL watching over our every move. The better behaved the bulldog, the better the impression.

 

Let me preface this by saying that as far as dogs are concerned I ain't squat. My opinions come only from owning a few decent dogs, training a few more and occasionally playing decoy when the opportunity arose.

I've noticed a few things about truly stubborn Pit Bull type dogs and prong collars that even you alluded to; "chances are he won't even notice a thing." However, sometimes we find ourselves in situations where stubborn dogs not noticing is simply not an option. Sometimes having a dog that won't notice could mean the dog's life or someone's safety.

Let's say, for example that you and an experienced trainer are doing a training walk along trails in a state park. Suddenly, horse riders, joy riding where they aren't allowed to, appear out of nowhere. Your dogs start barking and lunging, horses start rearing and knocking against trees, and young riders are quickly losing control of thorougly freaked horses and an already bad situation. The horse can't go forward against the dogs, the trail behind is blocked by the other joy-riders, and even if she could go back, the traily is too narrow for the horse to turn (thus no horses allowed). The only path to getting everyone and everything off of this trail unhurt, is to bring these dogs under control as quickly as possible, get them out of there, and give the riders a chance to settle the horses they're on. Now, you have a pain in the ass dog weighing about fifty-five pounds on a choke, the instructor has a sixty-five-ish pound dog on a prong. Instructor corrects with the prong,...and like you said,...dog doesn't even notice and is beginning to drag this six four two hundred almost fifty pound guy up under a horse. So, he corrects again and again, as is necessary, blood starts gushing down the dog's neck, since the prongs have gone into the dog's flesh; this usually rock-stable dog is so worked up by the situation and the nagging from the prong, he crawls up the guy's arm with his teeth. My dog was smaller, and had a choke on and because of this I was able to hang him up and get away with just a few scratches and a strained shoulder. One of the riders got thrown, but, because we were able to drag the dogs off, the horse did not blot and no one was seriously hurt.

Now, I'm sure you have much more experience than, and the chances of most folks running into a situation that I did are very slim. However, that episode was one that most clearly illustrated to me how inappropriate a prong collar on a stubborn Pit Bull can be, even in very experienced hands.
It, however, was not the only instance where I've seen "Pit Bulls" who usually "don't even notice" inappropriately redirect aggression to the handler when sufficiently nagged by a prong. I'm guessing it may have something with being "bitten" in the neck by those metal teeth that sends them looking the wrong way for the cause. From accidents with experienced handlers in competitions, to incidents with dumbasses on the street, I've seen the same thing happen with a Pit Bull and a prong too many times to put one on a dog without a very good reason. But I could be wrong, I usually am.

So, to each their own. If the dog is soft and submissive enough, a prong collar is a much better choice,..as far as safety to the dog is concerned. But then, like I said in my first post, you probably don't really need a prong, and a little more time spent on ground-work would go a much longer way in the end.

However, should you find yourself deep in shit, my own limited experience has taught me that it is better to have a choke to hang the dog, or a flat collar to drag him out of the situation without biting him in the throat. But, like I said, I could be wrong. And frankly, a "dirt-nap" in such a situation strikes me as a bit unfair.

 

Wtf? I've seen some brutal corrections done with prong collars (usually some hard ass GSD so don't even suggest 'soft' and 'submissive') and not once has it ever caused blood or sunk into flesh.

And what 6'4 250lb guy can't hold a bulldog? lololol Grab that dog by his flat collar and drag his ass.

 

Hey, I can't speak for your experiences with prongs. That wasn't the only dog I've seen cut by a prong. It happens. What might not cut a dog with a lot of hair and a sane pain-threshold, just might hurt a dog with a whole lot less of both.

Yup, he's a big dude, the dog was strong as an ox, and had the wrong equipment on....a prong.

 

Agreed i have seen some very brutal corrections done with prong collars and yes prong collars hurt your dog there no way around that other then not using one i myself use a prong collar on my GSD and when need on my Pit mix Choke Chain i dont like to use only reason i use them anymore is for dogs that know how to get out of flat collars i dont use them for training

Aaron

 

Fair enough, I can respect that. I use Herm Sprenger prongs, with rounded ends. Cheaper prongs have flat cut ends that can be sharp if applied the wrong way.

Insane about the guy being pulled over by that dog though, lol. Didn't think a little ol' bulldog would be too much for someone that size.

 

I'm not sure what you're imagining about the situation.
All I can say is that as we came around a bend in the trail we had three horses coming on top of us with no time to stop and nowhere to turn. Frankly, who was pulling what and how much was among the least of the concerns at the time. So, you're welcome to get hung up on how such a big guy couldn't handle a little ole bulldog, all I can say about the situation is that I'm glad that he was as big and level-headed as he was,....even when the dog turned and bit him. So, if you're imagining some cartoon-character of a guy getting dragged, please let me correct that image. Should you ever find yourself under an scared shitless horse with an amped-up bulldog of any size,...you let me know how you do.

Do you have any idea how much a sixty-five pound pit bull can pull when its trying to get a squeak toy at the end of the rails? Imagine home much more motivated they could be with screaming horses just a step away.