Bobby Hall's Line

Im not saying its not true, but I have heard the very same rumor said about many of the top peddlers/breeders out there. Everyone has a story about someone going to the pound and getting dogs to ship out. Heard that about bobby and many others.lol. Im sure it has happened, but I have heard the same about soo many, it has kinda lost its validity to me.

 

swamper his in alot of good dogs peds. Not sure if its to far back to mean anything but his son bash produced well....

 

I see a lot of negative stories about the Hall's CH Old Swamper. But I would like to ask you guys if you know tell me more about his son who was called Hall's Joker? Serb who lived in Zurich brought it personally from Texas. Bobby told him that Joker won against Rebel Kennel's Pie Man 1W for about 50 minutes. Pie Man was the dog who beat K.Allen's Butch, said Bobby. Is this truth, if you know?
When Hall's Joker was bred to pure "Giroux" bitch from Komany Kennel (from ex Yugoslavia), he produced some very good dogs. Among others Komany's CH Bela 3W... Therefore, I inquire if you know more about this dog. Joker was (officially) son of Old Swamper and bitch Hall & Hooten's Muleskinner. Thanks guys and sorry because of my bad English.

 

Vagabond your english is probely beter then mine so dont wory about that. here is some dust to think about. who sais that bobby hall sold and send the REAL ch swamper to the uk back then!!.you get my drift..
its the same with the Bulyson x arts missy litter there have been 22 plus sold ore something . ecetera ecetera. fortunatly we where in the middle of the game and the truth prooving as Don Mayfield(rip) used to say. and we learnd and gained a lot of nolige back then and where able to pick up BS very quik its like reading in between the lines..

 

Ben, I'm pretty sure Carver said, he'll sell you the cake but not the recipe, and Henziel said, a Bulldog line can be turned into German Shepards in 4 generations. But I could be wrong.

 

ill sell you the cake, but not the recipe.

i like that lol

 

ped dont matter that swampers son bash produced good dogs worthy of feeding, infact i believe it was the best litter born on uk shores.

 

You have right Limey. I know a bunch of dogs with false pedigrees that my countrymen sold to foreigners. And who knows what all dogs with false pedigrees Americans and your countrymen sent to us here. It is a circle in which everyone cheats everyone, and only individuals know the truth. But the main problem is that lie always sounds more beautiful than the truth.
P.S. Thanks for the compliments to my English but I need to thank this
http://translate.eu/

 

to be honest i can't see carver saying that about cakes. because he was in the business of selling dogs so to cop out to that would turn away sales to a lot of folks. BTW because i got that quote from a interview hi did back in the 60's. & i would be willing to bet i was the first to bring that here.

 

yea id thing the same thing. if somebody is willing to sell me a dog but wont tell me how its bred than how am i going to know if it will go good with my program?
doesnt make sense........

 

Ben no need to get touchy, I'm am almost 100% sure that Caver was quoted saying something along the lines of, I'm in the dog game, like a baker, I'm in the buisness of selling cakes, but not the recipe... Something along those very lines... Now for the other part you may very well be right, I said I have been wrong before, Carver may have said tht about in 4 generatons turning into GSD's I was confuesing the Quote Henziel DID say, and I quote "when I start breeding for color, I'll be sure to call them staffs, because that's what they'll be in 3 generations" my fault, but Ben, you've been on this site for just over a year, while you have said something along those lines many times, that quote has been said countless times on this site since 04... There is no need for you to get all homonal about a silly little saying...

Now as far as the other stuff, I still find it amazing that most people have a sence of entitlement when it comes to the dogs. They feel its they're RIGHT to know Gods truth about how dogs are bred, so they'll 'click' with the dogs they have so they can breed it and call it their own, and run something off of others' hard life's work,,, Only thing other people have the RIGHT to know is the truth about how good said dog is.... Is he a good full hearted and honest dog? Or is he a POS... That's the ONLY right someone who's buying a dog needs to know... Papers are good for one thing IMO and that's selling... Carver and many others that 'hung' breeding history produced damn fine dogs, and when looking for a damn fine dog that could win a compition he's one of the folks you went to, Not to start a yard and sell pups... He didn't sell breeding dogs, he and others sold Working dogs...

Sry for the rant....

 

that's cool rooster but idt so.

 

WOW rooster i can't believe some of the shit your posting. if your buying dogs from someone then damn right you should know how there bred. why do you think we keep records of breeding in the first place ? carvers dogs weren't just "working dogs those dogs produced & in some cases produced much better then they worked. & i would bet that he or anyone else wanted to know how there stock is really bred. if not then why not just go to the pound & get dogs. there's nothing gained by lying to folks except a reputation as a crook. if you feel the need to start lying then what does that say about YOU.........

 

Guys the quote "" Hel sell you the cake but keep the resepie"" was about carver. he didnt say it, it was ment for him.
Gog123 with al do repect Swamper didnt produce anything of real valiuew. infact it was allen sk douwnfall when he bought that papperd dog, Allen was one hell of a dogman and the best blood he ever had was the woods carolina abby stuff.if there where good dogs who carry swamper in them up close . im pretty sure its the other side of the blood that carried it..FWIW

 

bash was a daughter of swamper gog123. you are getting mixed up with the reid bred bash who was a male.

 

limey.. swamper did produce a few good dogs/bitches like chavez , happy eater etc

 

I think the biggest mistake AS made in the dogs was Ch.Swamper. However, I believe his second biggest mistake was Carolina Abbey.. Neither were good producers IMO. I was there when sons/daughters of Swamper/Abbey were schooled out and they were mostly averagel>low quality. The problem for AS might also have been that some of the best competition ever in the UK was at that time based in the same area as Ch.Swamper ie. Scar Knls, Northern Lad, Rayrock, Scotsman, Trainer, Ramrod Knls etc, maybe this is why he never had more luck with his imported dogs?

I owned a daughter of Swamper x Turbo, a daughter out of Jye x Kelly and other Swamper/Carolina Abbey prospects, they were average at best... I believe AS was one of the best UK dogman of his era, when he bought Ch.Swamper, he put his hopes, trust, reputation and money into the hands of Bobby Hall in an honest attempt to breed better bulldogs, who could blame him for that? I don't believe the dog that he got from Bobby Hall was Ch.Swamper but thats just my own opinion.

 

sorry must of got it mixed up. Id disagree slightly limey the bitch bash out of swamper produced the best litter born on uk shores when bred to montanna? Id say thats a good dog dont know how many times swamper was bred to call him a good producer...but bash produced well and those dogs went on to produce aswell...ashame they never done a repeat breeding with bash and joe imo

 

GH is the one who said . He would sell you the cake, but keep the recipe".

http://www.game-dog.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35085&highlight=gary+hammonds+interview

 

howard heinzl and maurice carver have both been quoted saying the same so it could maybe be a figure of speech among the oldtimers,:confused: