establishing "alpha" role among multiple dogs

establishing "alpha" role among multiple dogs

sorry everyone for the long title, but i have read some discussions on this topic and i dont know if there is a thread anymore covering this.

how does one go about establishing an "alpha" role? this is what i have heard and what i practice at home.

1.) tone of voice is extremely important.....i use my voice very well, and my pups/dogs are conditioned to it from birth, my husband calls it my "hollinator" voice, very deep, and sometimes loud....i make my voice a growl and sometimes a growl and snap.

2.) the rollover, now i have heard several conflicting opinions on this, but as an extreme measure for an extreme case, it works. i do however hold my pups on their backs often as they grow, i hold them there and soothe them in a calm voice while rubbing their belly, and when they have been still for a few seconds, i let them up and praise them alot.

3.) the human, as the alpha leader has benefits the other dogs do not have. for example, in my house, the humans eat first, then the house dog eats. when going through a door, the human (including kids) go first, if the dog tries to barge, it is immediately corrected.

4.) posture.... your posture is almost as important as your voice when dealing with dogs they are expert body language readers, but what they read and what you mean or are trying to do may be totally different things, when dealing with my dogs whether it be for play or work, my posture is the same, strait. when i am angry or offering a correction, i lean in over the dog a bit and drop to my growl.

5.) a dog must NEVER be allowed to get away with improper behaviour ever. it is much harder to stop bad habits then it is to prevent them in the first place.

6.) the "alpha" dog in the pack also establishes the order of the other dogs in the pack...things like feeding order, attention order, snack or treat order even working order must always remain the same, when changes are made, problems will arise. i have a specific order that things are done on my yard, i have a limited amount of behaviour that will be tolerated as far as a dog trying to outstep me or his/her rightful place in the pack. things like this can seem mean, but one must remember that a responsible dog owner must maintain control over his dogs AT ALL TIMES no matter what, by establishing "alpha" and the pack order it makes for a peaceful yard.



i am by no means a professional i have read hundreds of books on dog training and they are all different, i do not believe that "positive reinforcement" works for all dogs in fact it hasnt worked for a single one of mine, but the way i raise my dogs has worked wonders, and whenever i make changes to my yard i have trouble for a while until i start over in establishing the new pack order. i have a female dog about 6 months or so old who has never been off her chain spot at her previous owners yard, never worn a leash, rarely had a bath, never left her spot, she traveled across the country and when she got here she was terrified. i have worked with her both on and off lead in my house and yard, and seen some improvement, but she is very fearful...my methods have helped her to overcome her fear of quite a few things......and her reward?.....she LOVES kids, has never been around them before, but naturally LOVES them, so she gets to play with the kids for her exercise time, and even though as the new girl she is last for her workout every day as well as her meals, she waits very patiently for her turn.....these things have worked wonders for me also for those with more experience, please feel free to fill in my gaps....LOL

 

Re: establishing "alpha" role among multiple dogs

great post good info

 

Re: establishing "alpha" role among multiple dogs

Positive reinforcement does not necassirly mean giving your dog a treat after the command has been performed

Positive reinforcement is simply the dog getting something it wants. (like the female playing with kids as a reward) the kids are a positive reinforcement Petting is a positive reward

Another positive reinforcement would be letting your pup up after you rolled him on his back. the negative (on back) the positive (im free)

Even in housebreaking, the positive reinforcement is the relief from going to the bathroom ..

All you have done with feeding is put your dogs on a schedule outside. That alone doesnt make any one dominate or alpha over the next.

 

Re: establishing "alpha" role among multiple dogs

it is not just the feeding schedule, in everything they have their order......and all of them have their place.......it may seem like just the order i feed them and the places i keep them, but TO THEM it is totally different. in a wolf pack, the adults have their order, the leader and his mate eat first, then the others in the pack eat according to their order and the young and very old eat last...what i do in my yard is the same thing.


i get what you are saying on the positive reinforcement thing. i do use it, but the concept of always reinforce all good behaviour with rewards and always ignore bad behaiviour simply does not work.....now with other things like if you are playing with a biting pup, and you ignore him when he bites (i also flick the nose with a finger and say "no bite" in my growl) he will learn not to bite your hand. these are the types of things i am talking about....

 

Re: establishing "alpha" role among multiple dogs

I agree with some of what you posted, and some I really question. I really feel that this would mainly focus on training for a puppy and have serious problems with someone trying an "alpha roll" on a young adult or older dog that has any training issues.

Consistancy, voice tone, body language, and keeping control are the key in any training program. Consistancy being the biggest one.

The thread you are referring to is still here, just doesn't have all the details of my dog and Texasbulldog and I have been talking about it. In the case of my dog, an alpha roll is NOT the answer, and I'll stick by that decision. He is already terrified and submissive and I don't need to knock him down another peg by rolling him, and I'm confident in that.

You did post alot of good info but everyone must understand that each dog is different, and should be handled differently as things are evaluated.

 

Re: establishing "alpha" role among multiple dogs

This is more conditioning, or routine than establishing dominance. Its really not the same thing as in a wolf pack because all the dogs are interacting with each other and have been "dominated" by the alpha to know their place. With a yard of dogs, they don't have a way to be "put in their place" so to speak by the alpha.

 

Re: establishing "alpha" role among multiple dogs

the only training method I know of that doesnt correct bad behavior while only giving positive methods is CLicker training. All other methods correct negative behavoir some way shape or form.



Dominace and leadership have similiar characteristics but they arent the same thing.
Dominace is related to establishing solical limits..what is unacceptable. the dominate member defines what the pack CANNOT do. You have that with your dogs, but do your dogs have that with each other? Only if you allow them to play together and establish it themselves. Basically you are alpha over them but they themselves do not techincally have a pack pecking order.

so no, simply establishing dominace and alpha does not ensure a peacefull yard. If thats all one does, then there will be trouble since the dogs wont know what is acceptable, only what they cannot do. (and since dogs by nature are thinkers, when they try stuff and the dominate leader deems it wrong, they get punished)

LEADERSHIP helps to show a dog whats acceptable. IT is also important to establish leadership in order to inspire a dog's repsect and willing cooperation for sucess.

They need positive..they need to know what is acceptable. Hey, I cant do this but can do this instead. A dog with no leadership is a fustrated, unhappy dog

And dogs exhibit a wide variety of rituals involving virtually every sense. This also applies to their training, and schedules.

 

Re: establishing "alpha" role among multiple dogs

This statement right here is key! Not every dog will respond to the same training methods the same way. Also - it is a lot easier if you get a pup from an early age and train it than if you receive a dog that has been ruined and then you try to work with it (like LR's situation). And in my experience, it doesn't take much to ruin a dog (from a training/socialization point of view).

 

Re: establishing "alpha" role among multiple dogs

Excellent post rocksteady... great way to explain it!

 

Re: establishing "alpha" role among multiple dogs

Ditto! I was posting at the same time, but after reading Rocksteady's post, I was like wow! Very good way of explaining!

 

Re: establishing "alpha" role among multiple dogs

Basically what LR's dog needs to go through is Desensitizaztion

The dog simply displays right now seperation anxiety from other dogs
Its whole life dogs have been the postive roll, not people so it is naturally afraid.

With some conditioning the dog will gradually (hopefully) learn that it is ok to be out of site of other dogs and no harm will come. It is the same principal of conditioning a dog to accept its owners being away

Relaxing, playing, eating are associated with emotional states that are incompatable with fear

 

Re: establishing "alpha" role among multiple dogs

thats another thing, i agree with all of you, and great help and info rocksteady, and because i have established pecking order, my dogs can and do get along together, the only time i have problems is when i move dogs around, get a new dog, or my 2 males are out together, which they will tolerate each other for a bit as long as no girls are in season, i guess most of the order i have is among my females, therefore, i can actually have all 4 of my girls together, however i never leave them together, everyone has their place, and my voice is enough to stop anything from starting...LOL.

thank you for all the info though, great posts and good learning thread.

 

Re: establishing "alpha" role among multiple dogs

Gameness is Gameness and obviously you don't have game bred bull dogs. There is no way in hell that I'd let dogs of the same sex run around together, my dogs would go at each other in a second.

 

Re: establishing "alpha" role among multiple dogs

Actually some gamedogs do get along with other animals...

 

Re: establishing "alpha" role among multiple dogs

To a degree..and you could never trust them 100%

 

Re: establishing "alpha" role among multiple dogs

Yes some game dogs do get along with other animals. But letting a group of bull dogs run around together is just asking for trouble. So how many of you would let your game bred dogs of the same sex run around and play together?

 

Re: establishing "alpha" role among multiple dogs

same sex, no way! I have 2 females "littermates" that can't be near each other, but both seperately get along with my male. I would never leave any of them together unsupervised though reguardless of how they have been getting along. Accidents happen!

 

Re: establishing "alpha" role among multiple dogs

ok, major misunderstanding, i have 2 game bred 6 month olds that i let run with my matron, babygurl, and my younger adult female....however it is only for a short time and always supervised, and yes they have gotten into a couple slight problems, but im right there to stop it, and get things under control......OF COURSE i can never trust them alone......and BTW i never have made any claims about any of my dogs' gameness, i have one pure game bred dog, and 2 half game bred half show bred, and my own family of dogs which for the past few years (before me) havent been bred for either they all have game bred dogs in their peds to some degree however.......