Bandog question for breeders

[Wesley R.]

Hello, I want to start off by saying that this is a completely hypothetical question. I know some people are going to be bothered by this question, I'll do my best not to offend anyone. So here is my question how would you feel about someone using one of your dogs in a bandog breeding program? (a true breeding program, not just breeding two mutts together) but if they did health testing and worked their dogs, would you be adverse to them using some of your blood? Reason why I ask is I plan to start my own bandog program (in the next 5-10 years) not any time soon.But I wanted to know how I would go about getting some true APBT blood (not bullies) For my future breeding program? Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[sadieblues]

chimera kennels or lee D would probably be able to offer a bit of help here. Just remember that whatever cross you use in any program a ban dog is a ban dog not because of how it's crossed up but because it's bred to work and function as a ban dog should and each generation should follow suit. My question to you is why do you want to start a ban dog program? What use do you have for a ban dog? And how much do you really understand about those dogs and what they are bred to do?

[Erie Outlawz]

how would i feel about someone doin that hmmm no offense to those that are in to bandogs but thats like a spit in the face lmao!!!

[Wesley R.]

chimera kennels or lee D would probably be able to offer a bit of help here. Just remember that whatever cross you use in any program a ban dog is a ban dog not because of how it's crossed up but because it's bred to work and function as a ban dog should and each generation should follow suit. My question to you is why do you want to start a ban dog program? What use do you have for a ban dog? And how much do you really understand about those dogs and what they are bred to do?

Yes I'm aware that bandogs are working dogs,bred for a purpose.My reasoning for (possibly) starting my own line of bandogs is because I feel most/ almost all "purebred" working dogs have been destroyed by show breeders.Not saying that there are not still good working lines, but they're becoming increasingly difficult to come by. So my vision is to make an all around working dog. Good for personal protection, hog hunting and weight pull. I intend to breed a male APBT to a female working lines Presa canario. But not just any two dogs. They need to be proven in their respective fields of work, and health tested.This program may never happen at all, if I can't come across the right dogs for what what I need.

[Wesley R.]

how would i feel about someone doin that hmmm no offense to those that are in to bandogs but thats like a spit in the face lmao!!!

Hey, sorry you feel that way.I Meant no offense, I understand why alot of people might feel insulted as they and alot of other dogmen put alot of work into their respective lines of APBT. I would never breed someone else's blood into my program if I did not have their permission prior to doing so.Not trying to insult people or be disrespectful.As I like this forum quite alot. It is full of knowledgable people of the breed,and I learn something almost every time I'm on here. So once again, I appoligize meant no disrespect.

[Jim R]

although you mentioned no bullies, why not consider a good hunting amstaff line such as CJ's Black Satan Timex(not sure if CJ breeds any longer) or a Dogo Argentino.

dog will hunt!

[Erie Outlawz]

i think you should check out this thread and the swinford dogs:

http://www.game-dog.com/showthread.php?t=51174&page=1

[davidfitness83]

There are plenty of working mastiffs around so I don't see the need try it out in my opinion. You won't have anything serious for a long time.

[Wesley R.]

I must say thank you for all of your responses. Everyone has been helpful and respectful,of me even though this may sound like a stupid question to some.David, yes there are many working mastiffs out there, but not many that have the features that I want. Also I realize that this program (if it ever comes to light), would take the rest of mt life + to "have anything serious". As far as Dogo Argentino goes, they are not really guard dogs, I want a dog that will do it all. Plus white is not a color I would want in my program, because white is not a common color for protection breeds, also they have a higher liklieness for deafness/ other health probs. On top of that Other than Argentina possibly, where would you find good working stock? Seems like most breeders breed for show and ruin the temp/ working conformation for all working breeds.

[Erie Outlawz]

The white isnt a color for protection breeds and that they have a higher liklieness for deafness and other health problems is a little silly that only applies to albino animals and obviously you havent been around alot of american bulldogs or even the great pynories(probably not spelled right lol) i would recommend you read a book called K9 bodyguards by michael harlowe

[Erie Outlawz]

lol just dont come back on here askin where to find land of the giants pitbulls lol please!!!!

[Wesley R.]

Some dogos do have do have problems with deafness, "giant pits?" Actually I asked about real Pit Bulls, (APBT), (not bullies). So actually I was asking about average size APBT. But as I stated in an earlier post I don't mean to offend anyone, for the ones I have I appoligize. That was probably kind of a stupid question on my part.Thanks for the book recommendation, I might have to check it out.As I'm always interested in learning about all breeds of protection dogs, and of course the APBT. Have a good day and thanks for dealing with my ignorance as I'm still learning,and will be to the day I die.

[Erie Outlawz]

Land of giants was an actual kennel that bred for big ass pitbulls used in protection work the book i recommended has some of their dogs in it it was actually ment as a joke cause most believe they r cross bred dogs. And dogos have alot of problems if u ask me most that ive seen were not stable dogs im sure there are some out there but would not recommend the breed. If your lookin for a protection dog id go with an american bulldog they are a great breed as long as you find a good breeder if your looking for a bandog i already gave my opinion lol

[davidfitness83]

There are working presa canarios, working cane corsos, cao de filas, and many successful bandog programs already established that can hunt, weight pull and protect. Like I said I don't see what you will do different than the dogs are already produced.

[davidfitness83]

If you read your literature on the Dogo you would know the creator also wanted a home protector with the breed.


Here is a fine example working for a police department...

[Wesley R.]

There are working presa canarios, working cane corsos, cao de filas, and many successful bandog programs already established that can hunt, weight pull and protect. Like I said I don't see what you will do different than the dogs are already produced.

Well, I have researched all of those breeds,plus many more. Presa Canario- I believe I seen pictures of one working a hog once, But I think they're great dogs (my experience with them, I've only met one. My friend owns him He's a great dog trained in PP very obedient, just a little too big for what I want.) Cane Corso-Never seen or heard of them hunting hogs, except in stories. (never actually met one.) Cao De Fila Sao Miguel-I've read and heard very little about them.From what I understand they're a fairly rare breed in the states. Dogo Argentino- I have done some research on this "breed", and am aware that some make good PP dogs,but as I stated earlier they have a higher liklieness for deafness.Plus I find it a little odd that you all seem to be against bandogs and mixes, but how many breeds went into the Dogo Argentino? 10 to be exact.Also it seems that all breeders in the U.S are show breeders. The main thing that would differentiate between all these breeds is size and agility. What I hope to create is a dog where the males are 75-80 lbs tops, female 50-65lbs.Who's aloof towards strangers, fearless, and stable under all conditions.A dog that can go out all day hunting hogs or doing PP work, then come home and go play with the kids, and be a "family dog". The closest breed I can think of is hte AB, which was mentioned by another member of this board. But, it's the same problem as with the other breeds most get past90-100 lbs(scott/standard) if you're talkin Johnson some get past 150. Way too big. And while I may have not been around alot of American Bulldogs The two I've been around (both scott lines) also I have an AB/basenji mutt it's the same with all of them while they may protect if their fam was threatend they're definatly not what you'd call "aloof of strangers". They're like the APBT in the sense that they all seem to love every person they see. Sorry for being so long winded, the last part about the AB was for someone else.

[Wesley R.]

Land of giants was an actual kennel that bred for big ass pitbulls used in protection work the book i recommended has some of their dogs in it it was actually ment as a joke cause most believe they r cross bred dogs. And dogos have alot of problems if u ask me most that ive seen were not stable dogs im sure there are some out there but would not recommend the breed. If your lookin for a protection dog id go with an american bulldog they are a great breed as long as you find a good breeder if your looking for a bandog i already gave my opinion lol

LOL, guess that one went over my head. If I ever started breeding bnadogs I would never refer to them as APBT. As far as AB, even scott/standard American Bulldogs are a bit too heavy for what I'm looking for. Also there is too many "hybrid" breeders mixing Johnson lines to increase size.I touched on the subject of ABs in my response to "davidfitness" towards the end I would retype to you but I think I've said enough on this subject. But if there is any other questions I'd be glad to answer them.

[davidfitness83]

I am not against Bandogs at all but I just like to caution people that say stuff like that. Just so you know there is no exact number of how many breeds went into the Dogo. Unless you are getting this information from wikipedia or dogs101 on tv nobody knows and the creator never said it. I bet you didn't know the perro de pelea de Cordoba was actually an Alano Espanol, that famous picture you see everywhere regarding the origin of the dogo is not a fighting it is an Alano. They imported Spanish boar dogs (Alanos) to Argentina that were bred solely to the pit and this is how they got to the Cordoba dog. The Cordoba dog had the ferocity the creator wanted except it was extremely dog aggressive and useless in a monteria.

I have many contacts that breed superb Bandogs and I know they went through hell to get where they are. If you researched enough about Presas you would know there are smaller lines that extreme working attributes. Since you are looking for a smaller type dog I would still do more research on various working breeds that can present the skills you are looking for. Given the dimensions you are providing I can see a working bred Alano/Corso fitting the bill or even an Amstaff from performance lines. There are good dogs out there, you just have to weed out the crap before you find them.

[Wesley R.]

I have many contacts that breed superb Bandogs and I know they went through hell to get where they are. If you researched enough about Presas you would know there are smaller lines that extreme working attributes. Since you are looking for a smaller type dog I would still do more research on various working breeds that can present the skills you are looking for. Given the dimensions you are providing I can see a working bred Alano/Corso fitting the bill or even an Amstaff from performance lines. There are good dogs out there, you just have to weed out the crap before you find them.[/QUOTE] thanks for the advice.
Could give me any of these "superb" bandog breeders" websites? what lines of Presa are around that size? The only working lines of Presa I've really heard of are(that still breed) Curto, Iron Bull, and Red Star. What lines of Presa Canario have males that weigh 80 lbs? And if they are that small how can you be certain that they're not just a recent outcross?As far as Corso there are very few working breeders out there. I can only think of one that has a website Amore Cane Corso.Also Rivale, where Amore gets their stock from.I maybe interested in the Alano Espanol, but from what I understand, like the Cao De Fila.... They are not common and readily availabel .

[ragedog10]

On a side note the Land of The Giants pitbulls were not all 100lb dogs, there were quite a few i seen with my own eyes who were a bulldog now that was 15yrs ago i owned a real good one. Anyway Trying to start a line of Bandogs is gonna take years of hard work and money. Best of luck