Hisotry of EBT's and Staffordshire bull terrier verus Pit bulls in the pit

[rooster]

There has been a lot of recent interest in Staffordshire and English bull terriers on this forum. Since they were the original bulldawgs I thought some people maybe interested in reading this article.

Some interesting match results of APBT's verus Staffordshire bull terriers and EBT's in the pit in England during the 70's 80's and early 90's. All historical and all dogs now gone! Interesting for historical purposes. Some of these APBT's were of very good breeding indeed. Staffs and Ebt staff crosses are nice little dogs at the lower weights. I've had dogs out of Psycho line and also APBT. Great little dogs are the psycho ones. Interestingly Gr Ch Duke the first non APBT to get entered into the SDJ and was off English Staffordshire bull terrier show lines and not an Irish Stafford (as some claim). The line Psycho was from a Bull Terrier and Staffordshire bull terrier cross. Having the Lance blood (EBT) and Northern Star (staffy) in his veins (well DNA but you know what I mean lol). The EBT element was later much watered down unlike Stormer.

http://www.game-bred.com/indigenous-...-the-isles.pdf

Yeah I wrote this article some time ago for that web site. There is a little video on you tube too showing these dogs. The article is not an attempt to show these dogs as being superior to the APBT, just to demonstrate that at the lower weights AND I REPEAT LOWER weights these are nice little dogs. This is backed up by quite a few very famous American dog men saying the same thing. I hope you like the article and only civilized replies please.

I also made this you tube picture tribute of these dogs, as a RIP tribute. There is also an APBT on there called Scotsman's prince (this was an awesome dog)
http://tw.youtube.com/watch?v=NzCFhXL0LVM

p.s.
On the flip side the article does not include many staffs that have also been beaten by APBT's. That wasn't the point of the article it was to show how good these dogs are by the fact that good ones do beat APBT's at the lower weights, with American referees and good American blood lines (BUT ONLY AT THE LOWER WEIGHTS NOT HIGHER WHERE THE APBT DOMINATES)

The UK dog scene has always liked small dogs. IF you look back in your APBT history you will see most dogs were very small before they came to the USA ie Pilot etc

[Bobby Rooster]

Good read thanks, the only thing I would question is the true gamness of the english and irish dogs. Also the history of the modern pit dogs of the isles. We can for the most part trace all our dogs history back to when they came over here. From what I have looked at the english and irish pit dogs dissapeaed until the late 70's....

[castle]

Good read thanks, the only thing I would question is the true gamness of the english and irish dogs. Also the history of the modern pit dogs of the isles. We can for the most part trace all our dogs history back to when they came over here. From what I have looked at the english and irish pit dogs dissapeaed until the late 70's....

The reason for the apparent disappearence is that, their history was kept orally there was never anything put down in writing until the late 70's by someone who was alien to the countrys cultures .
This brought out in the open what was and should have stayed underground and it had a big impact and also disasterous consequences ,it made peddling a lucrative pastime .
Also the bigger is better brigade came to the fore

[rooster]

Good read thanks, the only thing I would question is the true gamness of the english and irish dogs. Also the history of the modern pit dogs of the isles. We can for the most part trace all our dogs history back to when they came over here. From what I have looked at the english and irish pit dogs dissapeaed until the late 70's....

Fair point. Before the 1970's dogs were being used in Ireland a lot. These were being used by dog men that were for the most part not that educated (no offence to them) so not into writing. As castle rightly points out most of this was handed down orally. However there was obviously a huge later influence of the American dog scene (and underground American culture) that would of had a large impact on making "dog fighting" more popular; with people that originally would never of come into contact with it. The internet has also had a huge impact as has other factors hip hop culture etc.

Also the English and Irish dogs came into popular demand after and not before the import of APBT's. Before that Irish and English dogs were secluded to a very small circle.

As for gameness. Psycho was a very game little dog. He was liked for his gameness not his ability. He got his arse kicked against Stormer. Stormer was far better in the pit and Psycho got dominated. But he was picked up before he would of died (dead game). He was by all genuine accounts a very game dog. However the name "psycho' is all over the place now (become urban legend almost) so it is almost impossible to know if you have a genuine Psycho dog. (castle was mentioning these dogs coming into popular demand creating a market for the puppy peddlers, well in the UK "psycho" is easily the most used and abused name, just check out the notice boards in your local supermarket and you will see all the "psycho" dogs for sale lol)


Dock's Duke on the other hand was a dog of unmatched ability for a Stafford (he was show stock by the way not Irish or old tyme), but we will never know if he was really game as he beat other dogs just too easily and quickly!

p.s.

Pscyho also was a total nut and persistant non stop tail chaser therefore the name psycho

[pit#5]

Not to be off track but a different post on EBT’s , I found a link - So can some one answer about the Russian dog fights just for education
Are these fights with these Russian dogs considered fare ?
are there any very large pits or maybe true fighters that could put these dogs in there place .Seems to me a dog at 100 150 and up against any dog at 45 50 pounds seems unfair advantage . I see the Pits seem not to give up compared to other types.
A bull mastiff was very strong but there are so many variables.
All in all the Caucasian type Dogs do seem strong, but are they game? or just so strong it hides that aspect.


hhttp://www.rossijskijvolkodav.mcdir.ru/en/dog_fighting_videos.htm

P.S. I always loved the SBT but found them very pricy and I trust APBT in many ways so I say with what I know, but I always wanted a small little SBT.

[RickyB]

When i owned "psycho" he never chased his tail ? ? I gave him the name because at the time i tough it sounded good, he won his 1st doing lots of damage to front end and won in 37mins, every one judges him on the video that was held 5 weeks after his 1st show, his owner was young and it was a mistake to do it so close to last show and he was'nt 100% ,
on the day, his 3rd show -v- nero(the dog he beat in 2nd show) was good, both dogs ware in much better shape, won his 4th in 29mins -v- a arno bred staff 1xw called "black sam", when matched into "stormer"

[RickyB]

His owners ware green to matching dogs and matched him too heavy, and any one who seen photos of him on the day can see he was'nt fit, ...as for " duke" he is part dublin red strain as his grand sire is douglas' "duke", and "kilbarron war paint" appears twice, both dogs are from dublin red strain...r

[reids]

so what your saying is that if psycho was lighter he woulda bet stormer???...how much lighter...

[Sampson1]

What did it mean when it said Moonshine finished the Psyco story in a kennel? Did Moonshine kill Psyco in a kennel accident?

[KBK]

What did it mean when it said Moonshine finished the Psyco story in a kennel? Did Moonshine kill Psyco in a kennel accident?

Sure did, as far as I know, Moonshine was his son I think

[RickyB]

what i ment was they shouldent have matched at the weight they did it, as it was,nt his weight, any of the photos of the psycho dog with a fur collar ,was taken on the morning of the show, and the dog dont look fit, neither dog ware great dogs i dont think either dog would last long with a good pitbull,...R

[dannyboy]

Big kick in the bllx for anyone trying to keep and breed good staffords there r b!

[lassie]

what i ment was they shouldent have matched at the weight they did it, as it was,nt his weight, any of the photos of the psycho dog with a fur collar ,was taken on the morning of the show, and the dog dont look fit, neither dog ware great dogs i dont think either dog would last long with a good pitbull,...R

Hey mate, just curious if u ever seen a staff u actually rated? Did u rate duke and sinbad or are they just myth?

[Sampson1]

Damn i never knew that..guess he produced better then himself then.

[sunbeam]

Damn i never knew that..guess he produced better then himself then.

why would you say that ?

[RickyB]

Its true, very few staffs(SBT) have beaten APBT's, i dont know of 20 staffs who have beaten APBTs, I can name a few but not too many, I allways hear when a staff wins over a APBT, but when its the other way round, every one says "he only beat a staff",...R

[reids]

ok cheers for reply ricky B.

[red eagle]

is this the real ricky b i was all ways lead to belive there was good competing staffords out there and perhaps theres not many good ones left and there is the few out there keeping the staffords real and ive got great respect for them and you kc show people make me sick if joe mallen could see your kc stock he would say there lovely french bulldogs lol

[RickyB]

I dont know any active dog men in my country that own a stafford, havent being any in over 20years, the odd dog turns up that may have some staff blood, but no pure bred staffs, some still keep them for sport in UK, and i agree with red eagle, them old timers would laugh at the KC type, the breed has changed so much in the last 30years,...R

[bandog billy]

what year/years did you own psycho ? not trying to trap you or anything,just wanna know ,and what was he exactly ? do you know anywhere on the net with the most factual info ?