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    Default Redboy and Eli Dogs

    REDBOY AND ELI DOGS

    Redboy Dogs

    When I mention the Redboy line of dogs, I do so because they have had a major impact in the dog game for many years now. Although Redboy himself did not produce a significant number of champions, his genetic fingerprint lies behind many of today's famous dogs. Redboy and his progeny originated in the Carolina's.

    What has made this a good strain is the fact that all of these dogs have come from a proven background. Most people assume that a dog must be a champion to be a good producer. Nothing is further from, the truth. A good example of this was Ch. Peterbilt. Peterbilt was a good game dog, and high hopes were placed on him to be a good producer. He was bred to some of the highest quality $#@!es in his time but his offspring were of poor quality, and today most modern lines of dogs have no blood of Ch. Peterbilt. The same was true of Gr.Ch Zebo. Zebo was a devastating pit destroyer and 7x contract winner. The Old Mountain Man campaigned Zebo for 4 of his wins, then sold him to Dave A, where he went on to win three more. Zebo unfortunately was a low percentage producer, and many serious dogmen lost faith in the Zebo line of dogs, and many disappeared altogether because of the high stakes cost of losing. Where does this all bring me to, well it's an example of how some dogs make it and some don't.

    The Redboy dogs like I said earlier gained their fame in the Carolina's, but their main, introduction into the fast lane came with the cross of Ch. Jocko. Jocko a Carolina dog himself was a pit intelligent dog with good biting ability, something the Redboy dogs did not have. Redboy dogs were extremely game soft mouth dogs, with the exception of Chavis Ch Yellow John. Yellow John went on to produce one of the most honest bulldogs of modem time Tant's Gr.Ch. Yellow. Yellow was a 6x winner who in turn produced superior offspring. He ranks only second to Ch. Jeep on the Sporting Dog Journals 'ROM' list. Gr.Ch. Yellow died only recently on Sept. 7, 1994. Yellow was the first of what was called the original 50/50 dogs; otherwise known as the Redboy/Jocko cross. Yellow had an exceptionally talented sister known as S.T.P.'s Ch. Sassy. She to had good producing ability, but of course was limited by the fact that she was a female. The Redboy/Jocko crosses continue to live on today and are exceptional fast lane dogs.

    One other point of mention, is Super Gnat's Boots. Boots was a Redboy/Jocko cross who never became as famous as Yellow, yet Boot's holds the record for the longest recorded match in history, going 4:52 for the win. This by no means even scratches the surface of Redboy crosses or other quality strains but is meant as an example of why this breed is so great. I haven't even begun to talk about those fantastic Eli dogs...


    Eli Dogs

    Eli was the product of the breeding efforts of Floyd B. He was heavily bred on Floyds all time favorite dog Blind Billy. When Eli a 2xw was bred to Mr.B.'s Spook, another Blind Billy breed dog, the outcome was to change the sporting community forever.

    Three famous names that come to mind from the Eli/Spook breeding are: Eli Jr., Bullyson, and a $#@! named Brendy.

    Eli Jr. was a fantastic 2xw himself and sire of one of the greatest dogs of all time, the 7xw Gr.Ch. Art. Art was unfortunately stolen and never recovered. Before Art was stolen the breedings made with him produced a high percentage of quality game dogs and enough to make Art an 'ROM* producer, just to imagine what Art could have produced if he wouldn't have been taken is enough to boggle the mind. Art had a litter brother who was an exceptionally talented dog in his own right, the 3xw Ch. Hurt. Bullyson was a 2xw, 1xL and another fantastic producer. Bullyson's only loss was to one of his sons Benny Bob. Benny Bob subsequently lost to Jimmy Boots in a classic match. Bullyson's legend as a producer can be found in many dogs, but his most famous offspring has to be the 5xw Ch. Honeybunch, the all time leading 'ROM' $#@!. Honeybunch subsequently produced the 4xw Ch. Jeep. Jeep now ranks as the number one 'ROM' dog to this day and literally deserves to be covered in a story alone. Other famous Bullyson offspring are Loposay's Buster 'ROM', and the ever so famous Midnight Cowboy. Brendy when bred to her brother Eli Jr., produced P. Carver's Black Shine. Shine subsequently produced the legendary 8xw, 1xL Ch Rascal, Oso Negro a brother to Rascal, and the world famous P. Carver's Stomponato. Rascal when bred to Honeybunch produced the 3xw Polly, who in turn was bred to Jeep's father the 6xw, 1xL Ch. Bo 'ROM', thereby producing the great 7xw Gr.Ch. Outlaw. Another famous Eli bred dog was the 5xw Gr.Ch. Nigerino. Nigerino represents some of the purest Eli Jr. blood to be found today and is a highly respected bloodline in its own right.

    The thing that make the Eli dogs so popular is that they are powerfully built dogs with devastating mouths who consistantly throw these traits into their offspring.

    One of best crosses to be made with the Eli line, was with the 'ROM' Snooty dog. Snooty was an extremely intelligent dog who added the highly desirable traits of pit intelligence and style. Eli dogs tended to be barnstorming dogs and this would lead to short-windedness. The Snooty cross corrected this problem without sacrificing the highly desirable Eli traits. Probably the best known dog from this cross was the 4xw Ch. Chinaman 'ROM'. Chinaman had it all and has subsequently produced a superior line of dogs. The Chinaman dogs consistantly throw intelligent, powerful, game dogs with a lot of mouth, literally a complete package. These dogs are true fast lane quality and continue to make an ongoing impact in today's sporting era. It would be impossible to list all the quality dogs that came directly or indirectly from Eli Jr., Bullyson, or Brendy, because their impact on the sport continues on today. Their are literally hundreds of famous dogs who owe their success to the Eli line and its originator F. B. and it would take an archive of novels to list the accomplishments of them all. This article much like the one about Red Boy only serves to scratch the surface of this famous breed.

    More on Redboy Dogs

    Red Boy was the result of a father/daughter breeding of Teal's Jeff and Mc Leod's Susie Q Gal. Teal's Jeff was off of Teal's Sarge bred to Teal's Lou. Teal's Sarge was a pure Colby dog out of Colby's Dime bred to Colby's Margie. Red Boy was a winning match dog, but his real recognition has been as a producer. Red Boy himself is an established name now which is primarily used today to describe a superior line of dogs that have been dominating the scene for many years now. The foundation of the Red Boy line can be traced back to two dogs, Bass' Tramp Red Boy and Bass' Cleo. Cleo was a Loposay bred $#@! out of Loposay's Cash bred to Loposay's Bobby. This combination of Red Boy/Cleo had produced top quality proven brood females, who in turn were bred back to Red Boy or other inbreed Redboy studs to strengthen and improve the line. This is an example of how the Red Boy line works. Red Boy was bred to Cleo to produce Bass' Cat, Cat in turn was bred back to Red Boy to produce Marlowe's (Whaley's) Red Feather, Red Feather was then bred back to Red Boy one more time to produce Marlowe's Venom.

    Venom was bred to Marlowe's Brandy Girl who was off of Red Boy and Cleo, the result was Marlowe's Fanny. Fanny in turn was bred back to Red Boy to produce one of the tightest Red Boy studs of all time Bailey's Bingo. Bingo has subsequently produced some of the best Red Boy dogs in the world, particularly when bred to Kitten's Peaches a triple bred Red Boy $#@!. Kitten's Devil Deacon, also known as W.C.C.'s Deacon ROM, Crenshaw's Hunter Red a soon to be ROM, and Kitten's Ch. Radar Man a dead game match winner are three superior dogs from the Bingo/Peaches breeding. A word of mention here is that when Crenshaw's Ch. Jeep ROM was bred to Marlowe's Fanny the result produced the great Miller's Ch. Cobra. Peaches had an an excellent producing sister known as Marlowe's Tabby Girl.

    Tabby Girl when bred to Crenshaw's Ch. Jeep ROM has produced White's Tab a tremendous producer who will no doubt reach the ROM status in the near future, Ramrod Kennel's Ch. Tramp, and Locke's Bliss a very good producing $#@! when bred back to Deacon, The Deacon/Bliss breeding produced the multi winning Don King dog as well as Bailey's Katie an off the chain winner going well over the hour mark for the win. One of the best Red Boy dogs to ever live was Chavis Ch. Yellow John ROM. Not only was Yellow John a tremendous match dog, he was also a fantastic producer. His most famous offspring without a doubt was the 6xw Tant's Gr.Ch Yellow.

    Yellow will be covered in more detail in his own story at a later date. Red Boy and his offspring originated in the Carolina's. What has made the Red Boy line so successful is the fact that all the dogs in the foundation of this line come from proven stock, as told to me by J.C.Shaw. There are not many champion names in a Red Boy pedigree, but rest assured these dog were all proven dogs. The gameness of this line is legendary, and is what has made the Red Boy strain so highly desirable. These are fast starting fiery dogs with tremendous wind. Some would say that the only draw back to the Red Boy line is the lack of mouth, this is not the case with all Red Boy dogs, but has pretty well been accepted as the truth by most. It really comes down to a list of priorities, gameness versus mouth. Some of the most successful crosses with the Red Boy strain have been with: Red Boy/Jocko, Jeep/Red Boy, Jeep/Red Boy/Rascal, and as mentioned by Bob the Assassin bred dogs. These are all proven crosses that have taken the sporting game to a new level in performance, and there are still more to come.

    Some kennels are starting to have success with Red Boy/Patrick crosses, and one particular kennel that I know of mentioned the possibility of trying some Red Boy/Boyles crosses from some of their best stock in the near future. These should be some dynamite dogs, but only time will tell. Some additional Red Boy dogs of note are Marlowe's Ch. Britches, Miller's Red Man a great producer in his day and the sire of Hoffman's Booger ROM, he's one dog that I personally feel has contributed greatly to the Red Boy line but has been forgotten with the passage of time, Marlowe's Rattler the sire of Ch. Britches, Marlowe's Mr. Bulldog the sire of both Peaches and Tabby Girl and Miret's Bud sire of Ch. Gambler.

    Question:

    As for the Red Boy dogs, do they consistently throw their endurance and wind? Thanks for any info.

    Answer #1:

    I do not personally tighten up on Red Boy blood in my breeding program. It seems to me tight Red Boy dogs are not match quality dogs. It also seems to me when you cross them up you get some high quality match dogs. That is why I like to use it as out blood and breed from it. This has worked well for me. I dont know of every Red Boy dog but I have had experiences with Ratliff s Daisy Mae Rom and Carolina Kennel's Ch Termite who have produced this way. Both of these dogs are Red Boy /Jocko dogs. They were bred away from the Red Boy / Jocko dogs and produced some great match dogs. Daisy was breed to a Patrick dog (S.T.P.'s Gr. Ch. Buck) and produced a champion. Many Red Boy dogs seem to click extremely well when out crossed with Patrick blood. There are several other Champions off this cross. Daisy was also bred to a Rascal /Honeybunch / Art / Zebo dog, for sake of argument lets say an Eli dog (Ratliff s Bobby Jack) and produced two more Champions. Many Champions are off this cross also. Ch Termite was bred to several Red Boy / Jocko dogs and seemed not to produce that great, after a couple years of this he was bred to inbred Rascal $#@!es and some other inbred dogs not from Red Boy / Jocko line. That made some great match dogs. This is not saying the only way to get a Champion or a match dog is to outcross, after all there are just as many Champions inbred, linebred, and scatterbred. Just these are a few I am familiar with.

    Answer #2

    Again I'm not trying to be the expert on this but the Red Boy line throws very consistently, some people confuse the Medlins Outlaw stuff as being the same but it's not. Outlaw is only bred once off of Teal's Jeff, while Red Boy is double bred Jeff. The Outlaw blood is generally considered to be a lower producing bloodline. The Red Boy dogs are well respected as consistently throwing long winded, game dogs, but all good things do come to an end. The Red Boy blood used to be available in limited amounts, and as word spread about the gameness of the line so did the popularity. This kind of popularity has a double edge sword affect, because some breeders start breeding more for paper than performance, this inevitable weakens the line as time goes on. There are some great Red Boy producing dogs out there such as the ones mentioned in earlier posts, but as time goes on many pop up that aren't worth the paper they carry. It's the unfortunate part of the game, but thats what makes newer crosses more interesting when they come around. Every bloodline has its good and bad, but popularity is generally what ruins a line, and the Red Boy line is no more immuned to this same fate. Stick with the known higher producing dogs even if the stud fee is a bit higher, trying to save a couple of bucks now could cost you a fortune down the road when your feeding a bunch of house pet stock, when you really wanted quality match dogs.



    ~ Richard Stratton

    YIS





  2. #2

    Default Re: Redboy and Eli Dogs

    thanks for another good read doc.I dont have a single apbt book so i really appreciate these articles you post.thanks a ton

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Redboy and Eli Dogs

    Not to stray off topic, but it always baffles me when you have a phenomenal performer and when it comes time to reproduce itself, it palls in comparison to others.

    Secretariat and Sham come to mind.

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    Default Re: Redboy and Eli Dogs

    Know a guy runnin rb/bullyson. Seems to b workn for him. Stuck with dat blood for last 25 yrs.

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    Default Re: Redboy and Eli Dogs

    redboy/bullyson or redboy/sixbits/maverick are good solid crosses in my opinion. thats the route I would go, I want game and mouth. Why not

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    Default Re: Redboy and Eli Dogs

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Lector View Post
    [FONT=Comic Sans MSWhat has made this a good strain is the fact that all of these dogs have come from a proven background. Most people assume that a dog must be a champion to be a good producer. Nothing is further from, the truth.
    I read in another thread how someone claimed that because of this principle some of the best producers were bred to give us some of the most well know line today, and if this all important point (of a dog coming from a proven backgroud, not just being a champion himself) was not taken into consideration when breeding, then we would not have what we have today in terms of the quality of dogs.

    To which someone answered, to paraphrase, that we would have better dogs, meaning that if only dogs were bred from champions and not from quiters, curs, or cold dogs the quality would be better today. This contradicts Strattons statement that "nothing is further from the truth."

    What are your opinions on this?

  7. #7

    Default Re: Redboy and Eli Dogs

    Quote Originally Posted by start2finish View Post
    redboy/bullyson or redboy/sixbits/maverick are good solid crosses in my opinion. thats the route I would go, I want game and mouth. Why not
    LOL, sounds like you really take the bait on this family/bloodline is good for this, and that family/bloodline is good for that theory.

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    Default Re: Redboy and Eli Dogs

    Quote Originally Posted by babedulce View Post
    I read in another thread how someone claimed that because of this principle some of the best producers were bred to give us some of the most well know line today, and if this all important point (of a dog coming from a proven backgroud, not just being a champion himself) was not taken into consideration when breeding, then we would not have what we have today in terms of the quality of dogs.

    To which someone answered, to paraphrase, that we would have better dogs, meaning that if only dogs were bred from champions and not from quiters, curs, or cold dogs the quality would be better today. This contradicts Strattons statement that "nothing is further from the truth."

    What are your opinions on this?
    In my opinion, specifically breeding winners wouldnt change the quality of dog much if it changed at all. Being a winner doesn't make a dog a better producer and it doesn't guaranty that the winning dog being bred wont produce low quality dogs.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Redboy and Eli Dogs

    Good read, keep em coming.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Redboy and Eli Dogs

    Quote Originally Posted by start2finish View Post
    redboy/bullyson or redboy/sixbits/maverick are good solid crosses in my opinion. thats the route I would go, I want game and mouth. Why not
    http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com...?dog_id=446528
    Thinking the same

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