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  1. #1

    Default mange and breeding?

    looking for your alls opinion or personal experience on demodex mange. i keep reading conflicting articles on wether its genetic or insufficient imune system that is the true cause.

    so say a female had demodex earlier in life and was treated and had no reoccuring outbreaks and was a bulldog worth breeding would you breed her, and if anyone has done this have they had a problem with the pups also getting demodex?

    thanks

  2. #2

    Default Re: mange and breeding?

    Generalized demodex is passed genetically through $#@!es if they have it. Males dont pass it

  3. #3
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    Default Re: mange and breeding?

    Quote Originally Posted by gotta12v View Post
    looking for your alls opinion or personal experience on demodex mange. i keep reading conflicting articles on wether its genetic or insufficient imune system that is the true cause.

    so say a female had demodex earlier in life and was treated and had no reoccuring outbreaks and was a bulldog worth breeding would you breed her, and if anyone has done this have they had a problem with the pups also getting demodex?

    thanks
    We had a female with it, and every puppy out of the litter had it. We kept them all and treated them all. they are adults and it never reoccured. I believe one female off the litter has been bred, but I am not aware of whether her puppies had demodectic mange.

  4. #4

    Default Re: mange and breeding?

    Quote Originally Posted by gotta12v View Post
    looking for your alls opinion or personal experience on demodex mange. i keep reading conflicting articles on wether its genetic or insufficient imune system that is the true cause.

    so say a female had demodex earlier in life and was treated and had no reoccuring outbreaks and was a bulldog worth breeding would you breed her, and if anyone has done this have they had a problem with the pups also getting demodex?

    thanks
    i wouldnt breed a dog with health issues. I have a female who is off of Frisco X miss Tank a unbelivable dog and i have never bred her due to skin problems

  5. #5

    Default Re: mange and breeding?

    It is heritable from either or both parents.
    We did an American Bulldog breeding for a friend. Both dogs must have had demo as pups, no symptoms as adults.
    The litter started developing demo at about 10 weeks to 4 months. They developed such severe cases that by the age of 1 year, only one pup hadn't been put down. She was over 2 before she was medically stable enough to spay.
    My little red female had demo as a pup. Not horribly, but bad enough to treat. It responded to ivermec, never had to treat her again, but it kept her out of the gene pool.

  6. #6

    Default Re: mange and breeding?

    All dogs have the demodectic mite as the natural flora of the skin. It is passed from the mother to the pups within the first few days after whelping. The gentic issue is due to the developing immune system of a young pup.

    If a pup has a localized case of demodex and it resolves on it's own without treatment then the dog may still be bred. But if you treat you will never know if the dog's immune system can fight it off on it's own, and will not know whether the pup is carrying the genetic predisposition for demodectic mange.

    If the pup has a generalized case of demodex then it should be removed from the breeding pool.

    Now personally I would never breed an animal with demodex. That is my opinion. But there is conflicting reports/opinions in the Vet community about it.

  7. #7

    Default Re: mange and breeding?

    Quote Originally Posted by CynthiaATL View Post
    All dogs have the demodectic mite as the natural flora of the skin. It is passed from the mother to the pups within the first few days after whelping. The gentic issue is due to the developing immune system of a young pup.

    If a pup has a localized case of demodex and it resolves on it's own without treatment then the dog may still be bred. But if you treat you will never know if the dog's immune system can fight it off on it's own, and will not know whether the pup is carrying the genetic predisposition for demodectic mange.

    If the pup has a generalized case of demodex then it should be removed from the breeding pool.

    Now personally I would never breed an animal with demodex. That is my opinion. But there is conflicting reports/opinions in the Vet community about it.
    A working animal, in this case Dogs,should have the strongest immune system possible passed on through its gene pool.Under heavy work and stress a strong immune system is crucial!Therefore,i would not breed from this animal if your goal is to design an animal that is strong inside and out.Ivermectin can clear up red-mange EXTERNALLY. FRIEND

  8. #8

    Default Re: mange and breeding?

    Quote Originally Posted by Celtic Savage View Post
    A working animal, in this case Dogs,should have the strongest immune system possible passed on through its gene pool.Under heavy work and stress a strong immune system is crucial!Therefore,i would not breed from this animal if your goal is to design an animal that is strong inside and out.Ivermectin can clear up red-mange EXTERNALLY. FRIEND
    LOL Ivermectin can treat it. However if it is immune related the immune issue is still there.

    And I guess you did not see where I said that I would not breed an animal with it. However there is conflicted reports in the Vet community about localized vs generalized.

    And demodex the proper term for "red mange" all dogs have the mite as the natural flora of the skin. It is not in the blood as you put it in another on of your posts.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: mange and breeding?

    Quote Originally Posted by CynthiaATL View Post
    All dogs have the demodectic mite as the natural flora of the skin. It is passed from the mother to the pups within the first few days after whelping. The gentic issue is due to the developing immune system of a young pup.

    If a pup has a localized case of demodex and it resolves on it's own without treatment then the dog may still be bred. But if you treat you will never know if the dog's immune system can fight it off on it's own, and will not know whether the pup is carrying the genetic predisposition for demodectic mange.

    If the pup has a generalized case of demodex then it should be removed from the breeding pool.

    Now personally I would never breed an animal with demodex. That is my opinion. But there is conflicting reports/opinions in the Vet community about it.
    Then you better not bred Thera again cuz Bean had demodex bad. Don't know if you knew it or not but she did.

    Celtic Savage, your posts are on the verge of being called ridiculous. Your assumption of facts, or just your plain out ignorance of what you post about is almost laughable.

  10. #10

    Default Re: mange and breeding?

    Quote Originally Posted by BoogiemanBlood View Post
    Then you better not bred Thera again cuz Bean had demodex bad. Don't know if you knew it or not but she did.

    Celtic Savage, your posts are on the verge of being called ridiculous. Your assumption of facts, or just your plain out ignorance of what you post about is almost laughable.
    And as far as I knew from all the other pups from Cold Steel Pits litter Bean was the only one with issues. When I heard about all of that I called the kennel that whelped Thera all of her pups from Thera none of them ever shown any signs. Also the 1 pup that I have from Thera has not had any signs of demodex. From Bean's previous owner Bean had alot of issues from day 1. So it is very conflicting Bean's immuntiy was never really up to par to begin with. I also spoke to Rich about it. And he confirmed Bean's problems. But Tanya was very good at raising pups and was able to pull Bean through.

    Did Ginger ever show any signs when you had her? Because she was off of Bean's littermate?

  11. #11
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    Default Re: mange and breeding?

    Quote Originally Posted by CynthiaATL View Post
    And as far as I knew from all the other pups from Cold Steel Pits litter Bean was the only one with issues. When I heard about all of that I called the kennel that whelped Thera all of Ali Combine's pups none of them ever shown any signs. Also the 1 pup that I have from Thera has not had any signs of demodex. Also from Bean's previous owner Bean had alot of issues from day 1. So it is very conflicting Bean's immuntiy was never really up to par to begin with. I also spoke to Rich about it. And he confirmed Bean's problems. If I owned Bean I would not breed her.

    Did Ginger ever show any signs? Because she was off of Bean's littermate?
    Nope Ginger never had ANY signs of demodex. Actually I was kinda just pulling your chain because, me personally, I don't think a puppy having demodex, even treating it, disqualifies them from breeding. Now if it continues to return, especially as an adult, then no breeding

    Everybody has different views. That's mine.

  12. #12

    Default Re: mange and breeding?

    Quote Originally Posted by BoogiemanBlood View Post
    Nope Ginger never had ANY signs of demodex. Actually I was kinda just pulling your chain because, me personally, I don't think a puppy having demodex, even treating it, disqualifies them from breeding. Now if it continues to return, especially as an adult, then no breeding

    Everybody has different views. That's mine.
    I heard about Bean after I bred Thera (Zydeco's litter). And I was worried. That is when I contacted Rich about Thera's papers and asked him about Bean. He told me that she was a sickly litte pup from go.

    Zydeco never shown any signs of it. And if she would have I would not have bred Thera this last time. Which by the way did not take And she will not be bred again. To old.

    There are VERY conflicting views and opinions surrounding the whole Demodex issue. I did talk to my Vet about the whole issue to regarding this when I found out about Bean.

    I do think that since the mite is part of the natural flora and when a dog has an immune issue anyway it will present itself. Demodex are opportunistic little mites.

  13. Default Re: mange and breeding?

    Why would you breed any dog that has genetic problems dnt forget demodex mange sometimes will skip a gen and won't show but the offspring will have it. People that breed dogs with genetic problems should not be allowed to own a dog. Ivromectin can be a quick fix but what about the life long prblem that you are passing to unknowing people.It's just sloppy breeding

  14. #14

    Default Re: mange and breeding?

    I have seen older dogs with other immune related issues have cases of demodex. Because of the immune issue. And the demodex mite is on every dog. It is part of the natural flora. It is passed from mother to pup.

    The dog in question in my scenario is a happy healthy dog now with no signs of anything. New studies are out in regards to demodex specifically localized vs generalized. It is very prevalent in our breed. But I have seenany breeds with it.

    But underlying immune issues can play a part on bringing out an active case of demodex. Because of the opurtunistic mite. I am not saying oh it is ok to breed all willy nilly but there are many factors involved in why.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: mange and breeding?

    I heard Macho Buck had it bad...

  16. #16

    Default Re: mange and breeding?

    i agree with CynthiaATL i have treat demodectic mange generalized in 2 of my dogs for long time treatment with ivmerctin but with no problems with small doses from mouth!!valaneg is the best and kills demodex for sure!!amitraz helps but is very toxic and dangerous!!!

  17. #17

    Default Re: mange and breeding?

    Quote Originally Posted by ohav4 View Post
    I heard Macho Buck had it bad...
    Heard about this too. Was this when he was an adult? Never seen a dog down from him have it

  18. #18

    Default Re: mange and breeding?

    mate bred a $#@! with it,the pups had it slightly when they were between 7-14 weeks but then grew out of it.

  19. #19

    Default Re: mange and breeding?

    Had a $#@! that showed no signs of it but 3 out of 9 pups came down with it. In pups I dont think its an issue, in adult dogs it shouldnt be there unless the immune system is compromised.

  20. #20

    Default Re: mange and breeding?

    There are 2types of mange that i know of teenage demodectic mange and scarcoptic mange 1 is inherited and 1 is contracted,unless you get a skin scraping and have it checked by a vet you dont no which 1 you might have.If it turns out 2 be demodectic mange i wouldnt breed the animal,unless the circumstances were utterly exeptional.

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