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  1. #1
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    Default gr. ch. blue bully

    can someone look up the ped for "couturier's gr. ch. blue bully" for me. Also if anyone has any info on this dog please share
    YIS
    B

  2. #2
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    Default Re: gr. ch. blue bully

    http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com...hp?dog_id=7067

    well i find the ped, kinda curious about this dog, anyone know anything

  3. #3
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    Default Re: gr. ch. blue bully

    ah...hell never mind its just a bluff with some tiny bit of game lines, nothin to talk about.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: gr. ch. blue bully

    Here is what I know, you can take it for what it's worth.

    Blue Bully was owned by Casey Couturier of Watchdog Kennels. While Bully was not a pit CH. (his GR.CH is a show GR.CH.) he was said to have been game tested & shown very game.

    This is one reason why CC left the UKC. They looked down on game testing & CC wanted his dogs to be true bulldogs, so he packed his stuff & took him & his dogs to the ADBA. CC has since gotten out of APBTs & now is in American Bulldogs.

    Like any line, there are pluses & minuses in the Bully line. The main plus is that he has thrown good looking blues that can win in the show ring & are still game. The main minus is there are several genetic defects run in the line, most predominantly, cancer.

    Hope this helps.

  5. #5

    Default Re: gr. ch. blue bully

    The dog was a great producer of blues including the Watchdog line, Chaos etc.
    his dogs ped has some good old Ruffian blood. Ruffian is the line that produced Juan Gotti (gottiline)
    Last edited by renegadepit; 10-27-2007 at 07:47 PM.

  6. #6

    Default Re: gr. ch. blue bully

    Ruffian is the line that produced Juan Gotti (gottiline)
    Along with some English Bulldog.

    I only say that because I don't think it's fair to link a somewhat decent blue dog to a monstrosity and embarrassment of the "pit bull" world.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: gr. ch. blue bully

    Bully did not "produce" the Watchdog line. Watchdog Knls was around long before Bully & they actually based their line on a dog called Couturier's Blue Max II, who was Bully's sire.

    Chaos Knls was around before Bully too. Their original base was off Persinger's Molly Bee. They only aquired Bully after Casey got out of pit bulls & sold off his stock.

    As for Gotti, everyone knows he is a paper hung mixed breed.
    Last edited by ABK; 10-27-2007 at 09:19 PM.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: gr. ch. blue bully

    Quote Originally Posted by ABK
    As for Gotti, everyone knows he is a paper hung mixed breed.
    You would hope everybody knows this by now, unfortunately......

  9. #9
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    Default Re: gr. ch. blue bully

    Naw, there are some out there who have not yet "heard the news." Or they are in denial, either one.

    I'm just glad there aren't any reputable breeders of Ruffian ASTs on here. They probably would have keeled over in shock to hear Gotti's name even associated w/ the name Ruffian. Or they survived the shock, they would have flamed the person who mentioned it into a crispy critter!

    But anyway ... we don't want this thread to degenerate into ANOTHER debate on the purebred status of Gotti.

    So to anyone who has questions about what we've said, I say use the search engine on the site. You will find many discussions on Gotti & his lineage, to include pedigrees & comparison pictures, so please do not debate it here.
    Last edited by ABK; 10-27-2007 at 09:53 PM.

  10. #10

    Default Re: gr. ch. blue bully

    I don't think Juan Gotty Himself was mixed. Especially EB. Juan Gotty is too tall to have EB. Some internet photos of him have been stretched to make him look wider than he really is. I think he looks like his sire Raider 2. Gotty is double bred Raider 2
    And Raider 2 looks like his sire Tony's showtime.
    I do believe that SOME of Gotty's offspring is mixed.
    Here are pictures of Juan Gotty, His sire Raider 2 and His Grandsire Tony's Showtime. They all resemble each other.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

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    Last edited by renegadepit; 10-27-2007 at 11:11 PM.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: gr. ch. blue bully

    I don't know about all of that, here is what I have seen:



    and the most "notorious" pic:


    That last pic, I could see being stretched, but the first one, I doubt it. Honestly, I think he was crossed into mastiff blood, but someone added EB later to obtain the "bully" look. Even in the pic posted by the previous person, he has those mastiff lips, you know what I mean.

    One last thing, if he was so great in the "bully" community, how come you NEVER hear of any sibling of Gotti? I mean, if he was so wonderful, why didn't they do another breeding and where are his littermates?
    Last edited by jr Pit Guy; 10-28-2007 at 12:50 PM.

  12. #12
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    Post Re: gr. ch. blue bully

    Quote Originally Posted by jr Pit Guy
    I don't know about all of that, here is what I have seen:



    and the most "notorious" pic:


    That last pic, I could see being stretched, but the first one, I doubt it. Honestly, I think he was crossed into mastiff blood, but someone added EB later to obtain the "bully" look. Even in the pic posted by the previous person, he has those mastiff lips, you know what I mean.

    One last thing, if he was so great in the "bully" community, how come you NEVER hear of any sibling of Gotti? I mean, if he was so wonderful, why didn't they do another breeding and where are his littermates?
    That is very true I agree 100% with this if he was such a good prodcer where are the littermates they could of raide on gottis name that's how a lot of the bullys are doing now

  13. #13

    Default Re: gr. ch. blue bully

    Quote Originally Posted by jr Pit Guy

    In my opinion this pic is the most telling. Check out post #6 in this thread...
    http://www.game-dog.com/forums/showt...ighlight=gotti
    where Miakoda juxtaposed this pic with one of an AKC English Bulldog.

    Although I am by far no expert...it's hard to see the two side by side, and think the EB influence came later.
    Also in the above picture posted of gotti's sire (the middle pic) in the face, and body.
    Last edited by screamin'eagle; 10-28-2007 at 01:32 PM.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: gr. ch. blue bully

    "One last thing, if he was so great in the "bully" community, how come you NEVER hear of any sibling of Gotti? I mean, if he was so wonderful, why didn't they do another breeding and where are his littermates?"


    I hear plenty about his offspring. look no further than a dog called Monster.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: gr. ch. blue bully

    This pic actually tells me the most. He is standing, not sitting. Also, there is a person directly behind him, which gives me reference to his actual size.




    This pic is taken while sitting down, and taken from above. While sitting, a dog's chest naturally looks wider. If you don't think so, look at your own dog next time he/she sits. No, their chest won't look THAT atrocious, but it will expand some.




    I say OEB, or some sort of mastiff was added. Possibly even American Bulldog.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: gr. ch. blue bully

    Quote Originally Posted by Titch_Pitbull
    "One last thing, if he was so great in the "bully" community, how come you NEVER hear of any sibling of Gotti? I mean, if he was so wonderful, why didn't they do another breeding and where are his littermates?"


    I hear plenty about his offspring. look no further than a dog called Monster.
    I'm not talking about Gotti's offspring, there are plenty. I'm talking about full brothers and sisters. I would especially be interested in seeing the rest of Gotti's littermates, just for S&G.

  17. #17

    Default Re: gr. ch. blue bully

    Quote Originally Posted by jr Pit Guy
    I say OEB, or some sort of mastiff was added. Possibly even American Bulldog.
    I was going to go back and add that pic back into my post above, but I couldn't. That one also, and the pic of Raider II Tell alot.

    When bred...the offspring's characteristics usually equal the average of the ancestors. Assuming that these other breeds were mixed in somewhere...the more gotti/gotti breedings (or if he is double bred raider II as was posted above) the more recessive genes will come up more often, and whatever was mixed in becomes more and more evident through the generations.

  18. #18

    Default Re: gr. ch. blue bully

    I'm glad this is a civil discussion here.
    As far as Juan Gotty's littermate, I Know of a couple. One was a female that was owned by Ablepaws kennel. Her name was Sheboz. She recently passed away. You could check her out at http://www.ablepaws.org/sheboz.html

    Tony Moore produced Juan Gotty and was sold to Barajas for $1,300
    Tony was heavily into UKC conformation shows as you tell in his pictures of
    Tony's Showtime which was taken at a show. and Tony's Raider 2 which was taken at a photo shoot.
    Like I said earlier I DON"T believe Gotty himself was mixed but do believe that SOME of Gotty's offspring has been mixed.
    Gotty looks like his dad Raider 2 which he is double bred from and he also resembles his Grandsire Tony's Showtime.
    When Gotty is properly bred he throws CLONES of himself. My dog's father is a direct son of Juan Gotty. I posted several pictures of my dog on here before playing with the spring pole.
    Its not impossible to believe that Gotty was NOT mixed. He is about the same height, length, weight even looks as the sires before him. He maybe slightly more muscular.
    There are many GAME bred dogs that when bred will throw slightly bigger dogs than themselves. A prime example is Tudor's DIBO (his photo is in JR PIT Guy's avatar, DIBO a Bully before his time) He looks nothing like the little Feely dogs before him. Stratton described the Dibo bred dogs of having a "double jointed hock" (similar to the Bully dogs of today) What about those OLD Family Reds. Some of the old ones looked REAL big and Bully.
    Below are pictures of a 5 generation ped starting with my dog, his sire, Gotty, Raider 2 Showtime which all look similar. My dog looks like his great grand sire Raider 2.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

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    Last edited by renegadepit; 10-28-2007 at 08:54 PM.

  19. #19

    Default Re: gr. ch. blue bully

    The pics did not come out in the order I wanted them to. My dog is the 2nd one followed by his sire, than Gotty, than Raider 2. The first one is Tony's Showtime which he should have been at the end. My dogs weight is currently 67lbs.

  20. #20

    Default Re: gr. ch. blue bully

    Quote Originally Posted by renegadepit
    When Gotty is properly bred he throws CLONES of himself.
    Hopefully that doesn't include temperament. Someone here was nice enough to share a story with me about Gotty biting the hell out of some guy who came to look at his puppies. (The guy ended up buying 2 pups off him, too.) I that's true, that dog should be a cull, not a mass sperm donor.

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