+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 50
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Northeast Oklahoma
    Posts
    274

    Default Starting new bloodline ?s and inbreed coefficient ?s

    I have a question. How many generations worth of inbreeding/linebreeding does it take to start a new bloodline?

    Also, one more. This one is theoretical only. If a dog, let's say dog A, had parents that shared a father, would it be OK to breed back with a non-littermate full brother(dog B)? What would the inbreed coefficient be?

    I have been trying to figure out this whole inbreed coefficient thing and how it works, so please don't flame me.

    Ok, one more. What if dog A was bred into an uncle that was related to the Dam only, and then bred back into dog B? Too much inbreeding, or better than breeding dog A to dog B?

    Sorry if I confused anyone and thanks for any input,

    JR

  2. #2

    Default Re: Starting new bloodline ?s and inbreed coefficient ?s

    Im not sure what you mean with those questions.

    But usually a dog's worth starting breeding when hes an ACE and he does mark his offspring with those traits that make him good.

    Now depending on the dog and lots of factors, inbreeding,linebreeding and even outcross are the options breeders have to improve this blood,add or correct things but this depends on too many things and on breeder's standard.

    If you want to know more about genetics and inbreed/linebreed there is good info on the internet, i just hope you use this on a good way.

    Inbreeding is specially critical if done by unexperienced breeders and there is no need to start new bloodlines imo... unless you got a REALLY good dog, the money and time to plan a breeding program.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Northeast Oklahoma
    Posts
    274

    Default Re: Starting new bloodline ?s and inbreed coefficient ?s

    I don't plan on breeding or starting a line, I am just trying to get some general knowledge on the subject. Trust me, I have enough dogs as is and there are too many people breeding in this area for me to even give a dog away. I don't plan on breeding for a long time, if ever.

    Also, I am trying to figure out if breeding a brother and sister together who are already inbred would be good for anything other than bringing out any hidden genetic defects and culling.

    I think I confused you by asking two questions that had little to do with each other. Sorry.

    Thanks for helping me though, you did help explain some.

    JR

  4. #4

    Cool Re: Starting new bloodline ?s and inbreed coefficient ?s

    Breeding littermates should only be done to preserve the blood itself.I only do it when my winners get old and chances are they may not be around much longer.If at all possible,I would rather breed Mother/son Father/daughter or even better aunt/nephew uncle/ niece This is a better way to linebreed.

    All this is for preservation of something special,not any old dogs.If yours make it to the fastlane and do well,then keep it around. JMHO

  5. #5

    Default Re: Starting new bloodline ?s and inbreed coefficient ?s

    Quote Originally Posted by jr Pit Guy
    I have a question. How many generations worth of inbreeding/linebreeding does it take to start a new bloodline?

    Also, one more. This one is theoretical only. If a dog, let's say dog A, had parents that shared a father, would it be OK to breed back with a non-littermate full brother(dog B)? What would the inbreed coefficient be?

    I have been trying to figure out this whole inbreed coefficient thing and how it works, so please don't flame me.

    Ok, one more. What if dog A was bred into an uncle that was related to the Dam only, and then bred back into dog B? Too much inbreeding, or better than breeding dog A to dog B?

    Sorry if I confused anyone and thanks for any input,

    JR
    well your not going to start a line by just inbreeding and line breeding.a line of dogs come from a dog that has acomplished something great,or if you yourself tend to produce superior animals.hence you will here mayday,bullyson,chinaman line but you will also here Boudreaux,Colby and other names as well.but to produce a line you have to have superior animals better than anything out there at the point and time and you have to be able to produce it with some consistency.it is a very hard thing to do and requires extensive understanding of bloodlines and breeding.i don't quite understand the first part of your inbreeding question,but i can tell you that with the second part of your inbreeding question is it is pretty close and you better have near perfect stock because if not you are going to magnify the littlest bit of bad 10 fold.leave it to the pros for the time being and i hope you stick to what you allready posted about you and breeding,and by that i mean i hope you don't do it till you know what your doing.very serious thing to do breeding dogs and it should never be taken lightly.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Northeast Oklahoma
    Posts
    274

    Thumbs up Re: Starting new bloodline ?s and inbreed coefficient ?s

    Thank you Old Timer for the answer. I think that you summed up most of what I asked. Like I said before, I don't plan on breeding. I have enough dogs as it is, and if I ever want another in the future, I'll probably go back to the kennel that I got my little white dog from. I am just trying to get some general knowledge on breeding and the likes, hey you can NEVER learn too much. Your input is greatly appreciated.

    I did notice that you stated a line could not be started unless the dog or owner was famous, why? or did I read this wrong?

    Thanks again.

    JR

  7. #7

    Default Re: Starting new bloodline ?s and inbreed coefficient ?s

    Its not that you couldn't start a line, but why would you want to start with something unproven? No matter what your breeding goal is, you should start with dogs that have made a name for themselves before you go ahead with the breeding aspect. I think that's what Old Timer is saying, though I'm not trying to speak for him.

    As far as when something becomes a bloodline, that's in the eye of the beholder. I feel like something becomes a bloodline once it is breeding true and throwing consistent traits for several generations. In short, it can take somebody's lifetime to create a bloodline. Some peoples' bloodlines don't even get recognized until after they've passed on. (On the flip side, some people call something a bloodline after a few generations. I think most here would agree it takes longer than that.)

  8. #8

    Default Re: Starting new bloodline ?s and inbreed coefficient ?s

    Quote Originally Posted by jr Pit Guy
    Thank you Old Timer for the answer. I think that you summed up most of what I asked. Like I said before, I don't plan on breeding. I have enough dogs as it is, and if I ever want another in the future, I'll probably go back to the kennel that I got my little white dog from. I am just trying to get some general knowledge on breeding and the likes, hey you can NEVER learn too much. Your input is greatly appreciated.

    I did notice that you stated a line could not be started unless the dog or owner was famous, why? or did I read this wrong?

    Thanks again.

    JR
    well it has to be consistent like was allready said.either a certain dog has to become famous and sought after for producing,preforming and so and so forth.or the owner has to be well known for producing quailty dogs that preform well and such.what it boils down to is the dogs you produce have got to be known for something and they have to preform well and produce well in order to creat a line.and it is no small task even i didn't want to try and do it.i myself wanted to specialize in a certain line and produce the best i could.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Starting new bloodline ?s and inbreed coefficient ?s

    Quote Originally Posted by Old Timer
    well it has to be consistent like was allready said.either a certain dog has to become famous and sought after for producing,preforming and so and so forth.or the owner has to be well known for producing quailty dogs that preform well and such.what it boils down to is the dogs you produce have got to be known for something and they have to preform well and produce well in order to creat a line.and it is no small task even i didn't want to try and do it.i myself wanted to specialize in a certain line and produce the best i could.
    Yes Consistency is key. I agree with most of what you said here Oldtimer.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Northeast Oklahoma
    Posts
    274

    Default Re: Starting new bloodline ?s and inbreed coefficient ?s

    Thanks for all of the input guys. You really have helped me get a basic understanding on how bloodlines get started. I'm glad that there are people out there willing to educate the uneducated.

    Does anyone have any information about inbreeding coefficient that I might be able to read? I can't seem to find any.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Pa
    Posts
    619

    Default Re: Starting new bloodline ?s and inbreed coefficient ?s

    So if you were planing on breeding, what were you planing on starting with?

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Northeast Oklahoma
    Posts
    274

    Default Re: Starting new bloodline ?s and inbreed coefficient ?s

    Quote Originally Posted by 215pitts
    So if you were planing on breeding, what were you planing on starting with?
    I don't plan on breeding, but that is a good question to ponder. Maybe a thread should be started on that. Kind of like a fantasy bloodline. Hmmm..........

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    PENNSYLVANIA
    Posts
    275

    Default Re: Starting new bloodline ?s and inbreed coefficient ?s

    Definately, consistancy is the key to success. As far as inbreeding and line breeding. You won't know how far you can go till you can't go no more. It will take years and generations to know if your breeding "worked". Will the pups you bred produce qaulity dogs? Don't inbreed just because some one does it. My advice is, if you are going to breed, do the best you can. Bad reputation travels far and last long. Focus on having a good dog first.
    P.S. Only my opinion, but I feel you start or continue a bloodline with every breeding. Which is why I feel, you should understand, that your name will be on the dogs and thier descendants.Good or bad.You can take two dogs from "so & so 's", yard and breed them. That is your breeding. Its off of "so & so's", blood, but you are the breeder. You may share the glory, but failure is yours alone. You made that choice to breed them, not "so & so". Same if you out cross "so & so's", dog with inferior qaulity. If it doesn't work out, "so & so", will point to the inferior qaulity. You stake your reputation on every breeding you make. Whether you know it or not. Always rely on pure quality ( your version), not marketing and promotion.
    Last edited by EDOGZ818; 09-04-2007 at 09:20 PM.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Starting new bloodline ?s and inbreed coefficient ?s

    A bloodline is started not only when the DOG proves himself and his worth time and time again, but also after he proves to be a consistent producer with pups that also prove themselves time after time.

    Yes, some bloodlines are named after people, but for these people, the quality and the consistency of their dogs spoke volumes.

    IMO one cannot just decide to make up his/her own bloodline. The power to do so doesn't rely in your hands, it rests upon your dogs.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    PENNSYLVANIA
    Posts
    275

    Default Re: Starting new bloodline ?s and inbreed coefficient ?s

    Quote Originally Posted by miakoda
    ...IMO one cannot just decide to make up his/her own bloodline. The power to do so doesn't rely in your hands, it rests upon your dogs.
    First I'm glad your are back. Even my wife was feeling for you. Get those adresses for us.

    I disagree with you though. I think you start a bloodline everytime time you breed. (IMO) I say this knowing that it can full well be a "BS", bloodline, but a bloodline none the less. Yin & Yang / Contrast. No dark unless light exist, no joy unless pain exist. If a proven dog can start a bloodline, so can a "BS", dog. A proven dog / producer will bring respect and admiration that we all look for, and a "BS", breeding will bring the shame we all try to dodge.

    ( HOPEFULLY )

    Prime example:

    There is a line of Blue dogs named after a famous N.Y. mobster, and that is now reconized as a bloodline. In my opinion you won't find a good dog in that lines pedigree. ( I COULD BE WRONG ) These "BREEDERs", prove the point that you aren't trying to make.

    You can start a "BS", bloodline, with a "BS", dog. Newbies beware though, this will make you a "BS", breeder.

    "BS" DOG + "BS" BREEDER = "BS BLOODLINE"
    Last edited by EDOGZ818; 09-06-2007 at 11:11 AM.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    PENNSYLVANIA
    Posts
    275

    Thumbs up Re: Starting new bloodline ?s and inbreed coefficient ?s

    Quote Originally Posted by oldschool
    Breeding littermates should only be done to preserve the blood itself.I only do it when my winners get old and chances are they may not be around much longer.If at all possible,I would rather breed Mother/son Father/daughter or even better aunt/nephew uncle/ niece This is a better way to linebreed.

    All this is for preservation of something special,not any old dogs.If yours make it to the fastlane and do well,then keep it around. JMHO
    REAL RAP right there. That would constitute a bloodline to me. Its really a continuation of the bloodline, but it will be reconized on its on merit If they dogs shine star bright in the fastlane.

    I believe this is what you mean miakoda. Am I correct?
    Last edited by EDOGZ818; 09-06-2007 at 11:23 AM.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Northeast Oklahoma
    Posts
    274

    Default Re: Starting new bloodline ?s and inbreed coefficient ?s

    Wow, I didn't realize that there were so many different opinions on this. Here is what I have came up with so far, please correct me if I'm wrong. For a dog to start a bloodline, it must make an impact, or change in the current bloodline. Whether good or bad. I am kind of loosely basing this on the fact that both Jeep and Chinaman were Eli bred, Eli came down from a Tudor dog (Dibo). See where I get my theory?

    For a breeder to create a bloodline, there must be X amount of consistent breedings by that person or kennel.

    Am I even in the ball park?

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    PENNSYLVANIA
    Posts
    275

    Default Re: Starting new bloodline ?s and inbreed coefficient ?s

    Its all opinions. In theory you are correct, and so is everyone else here.There is no "one", criteria to determine. Bloodlines come from dogs. If it is named after the breeder, generally that means its that's breeders' line of dogs. For example:
    You can have "Jeep" bloodline. You can also have Crenshaw's blood. (Bloodline). The terms can be interchanged, provided both parties understand what is meant. Crenshaw's blood / bloodline is not neccassarily "Jeep", but its stuff Crenshaw bred to use. "Crenshaw's Bloodline", can confuse the other party, unless its understood that you mean "JEEP". Crenshaw had other dogs besides "JEEP". I can't give you a technical answer because I don't know. ( Was never into the technical aspect.) I can tell you this: A good dog will make technical stuff a moot issue. "Good" , meaning show, go, and throw. That is where you should focus first. That is where credibilty and respect is earned. Otherwise your putting the cart before the horse. This isn't an overnight thing, all though in some cases it may appear that way. Think of a duck. Smooth on the surface, but underneath, he paddling like a mo' fo'.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Starting new bloodline ?s and inbreed coefficient ?s

    man.. and i was thinking of inbreeding

    thats it.. dog im getting is going to be desexed..

    its funny hoe people always think that if u own a pitbull than u must be running your own line.. havent u guys realized how people in the internet always ask u what line u running. how about im not running anything and i dont need to, if u want a good dog i know where to look. breeding aint that easy..

  20. #20

    Default Re: Starting new bloodline ?s and inbreed coefficient ?s

    I own a female down here in sunny South Africa bred as follows:-
    _________Scorpio's Snorman___GR.CH. True Blood & Pineman's PW
    ___Payday's Panas____________Scorpio's Thandi
    _________CH.Payday's Bakkies__Scorpio's Jaklas POR
    NIGHTSHADE_________________Buffalo Bill's Lee Lee POR
    _________CH.Pastor's Jakkie____Scorpio's Jaklas POR
    ___Payday's Siembamba________Buffalo Bill's Lee Lee POR
    _________CH. Payday's Bakkies__Scorpio's Jaklas POR
    ____________________________Buffalo Bill's Lee Lee POR

    Now I know that these dogs are not known to you guys , but just for background sakeSnorman was a 1xW and is a half brother to Jaklas & Lee Lee (they are all sired by GR.CH. PW).The three are all deceased.CH. Jakkie & CH. Bakkies were obviously littermates, the question I ask is , is my female inbred off Jaklas & Lee, linebred off Jaklas & Lee Lee or linebred off GR.CH. PW, & can this be an example of beginning a bloodline.Forgive my ignorance , you must understand we are a little slow that way down here, LOL.
    By the way GR.CH.PW was off a heavy RedBoy male , Tant's David(GR.CH. Yellow x Tant's Miss RedBoy) over a female down from CH. Saloon or Allen's Butch breeding, Bell's Big Jane(Hoffman's Sundance x Boyd & Stephenson's Mad Maggie).

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts