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  1. #1
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    Default Inbred..how much is too much?

    I've got a buddy of mine who just had a litter of pups a little while back, and he's picked "the best" female from this litter and is planning on breeding it back to the sire.. I'm not sure what he's looking to get out of it. But I know you can breed back and inbreed to get certain characteristics from the dam/sire and such.. but how much is too much. How long before he can expect to see gimpy dogs or deformed dogs? I know the genes and such are different than humans.. but too much of the same genes has got to eventually start producing some defomed dogs.. right?

  2. #2

    Default Re: Inbred..how much is too much?

    Quote Originally Posted by NcPrisonGuard
    I've got a buddy of mine who just had a litter of pups a little while back, and he's picked "the best" female from this litter and is planning on breeding it back to the sire.. I'm not sure what he's looking to get out of it. But I know you can breed back and inbreed to get certain characteristics from the dam/sire and such.. but how much is too much. How long before he can expect to see gimpy dogs or deformed dogs? I know the genes and such are different than humans.. but too much of the same genes has got to eventually start producing some defomed dogs.. right?
    This is kind of a tricky question. Some breeders will do what your friend is doing to lock in type. And keep the best pup, and breed the pup to either an out cross bloodline or to a linebred relative. some breeders would do that to see what genetic defects are in the line. they keep the whole litter or give them to peple they know. From what I understand from genes is not all of the puppies will have defects its a gamble to deal with. then again game-bred dogs have a larger gene pool than show dogs. Just my theory :I think that when game bred breeders do this you will not see defects as much as you would see in show dogs. I have never heard of ( some one can show me ) game-bred dogs having many genetic diseases like show dogs.

    One of my american bobtails mated with his mother on accident. bobtails already have a mutated gene( which is having a short tail) . what came out was a normal looking kitten. She was fine until she was around 2 years old. She started to loose weight and loosing her hair. I kept her at the vet for a week they could not find out what was wrong with her. these are show cats and usually bobtail breeders do not breed to relatives but since they already have a mutated gene it made that kitten a gentetic mess.

    I have also mated 2 cats that where not related at all. and boy was I shocked to get deformed kittens. But then again I am breeding with a mutated gene.

    I dont know if that helped lol sorry for rambling

  3. #3

    Default Re: Inbred..how much is too much?

    i would like to see more info on this topic !

  4. #4

    Default Re: Inbred..how much is too much?


    How long before he can expect to see gimpy dogs or deformed dogs? I know the genes and such are different than humans.. but too much of the same genes has got to eventually start producing some defomed dogs.. right?
    IMO, only the experienced should do heavy inbreeding. A daughter to father breeding probably won't be detrimental, but he should keep every pup from that litter or atleast keep close tabs on them for no less than a year. Any pup that shows any sign of a problem should be culled, wether it be temperment or health issues. I think another big factor is what blood is he using. Is the father and mother already tightly bred? If the daughter is bred back to the father, how tight would it be then? Also, just another side of the coin, I think there is a bigger risk when the pups already come from scatterbred parents and are bred back to that parent. Then, you have no idea what you are gonna get. But, I probably have no idea compared to some of the others on here.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Inbred..how much is too much?

    Quote Originally Posted by jadedpitgirl
    IMO, only the experienced should do heavy inbreeding. A daughter to father breeding probably won't be detrimental, but he should keep every pup from that litter or atleast keep close tabs on them for no less than a year. Any pup that shows any sign of a problem should be culled, wether it be temperment or health issues. I think another big factor is what blood is he using. Is the father and mother already tightly bred? If the daughter is bred back to the father, how tight would it be then? Also, just another side of the coin, I think there is a bigger risk when the pups already come from scatterbred parents and are bred back to that parent. Then, you have no idea what you are gonna get. But, I probably have no idea compared to some of the others on here.
    I breed very tight , I have a repete breeding now on the ground that is daddy, daughter out of a brother sister breeding, out of a cross (jeep,cowboy-ironhead) that was 2 daddy daughter dogs, The last litter out of 8 dogs I kept 7 , 1 went to a girl for a pet 2 were stolen off my yard, 5 are still hunting and are first class bulldogs. They all act just like the parents, all have all the tools of the trade. and all of them are very smart. I hope this new litter is as good. YIS J

  6. #6
    Attila Guest

    Default Re: Inbred..how much is too much?

    you know you have gone to far when they have a third eye and move to Arkansas. lol

    Sir to offspring is common. Every 3rd generation is ok. Some do it more often but some also get too heavy and have some $#@!ed ass dogs. I do some. Every now and then it doesn't hurt.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Inbred..how much is too much?

    A couple of years ago we did a very, very tight breeding, for several reasons.

    1. Our blood is getting old, not that many folks have dogs how ours are bred.
    2. We needed to check the genetic integretity of the line.
    3. Type is already set in our dogs....ya pretty much know your going to get buckskin dogs with black masks that are structually correct, free of health problems...nice solid bulldogs with tremendous working drive.
    4. Needed brood dogs that would produce what they are no matter what we chose to outcross them too.

    Mind you we have had this group/line of dogs for around 20yrs. We bred a 7/8 male to a 3/4 female. Breeding tight will usually restrict the litter size..it will be a smaller litter. The $#@! was 9 1/2 when she was bred, fully checked by our vet. Who by the way swore there was no way that she could have been that old..LOL Trust me she was 9 1/2 and in great shape. She delivered 3 pups (she was spayed immediately after delivery)...one stillborn and 2 females. These females are very, very nice little 33lb & 36lb dogs. They are almost 2 now and very healthy, sound of mind and body bulldogs. With drive to boot.

    This is something I definately do not recommend that just everyone do. You have to know your dogs ancestory for many generations and what it is throwing. If there are dogs with any defects (no work drive, straight stiffled, bowlegged, out of standard in any way) they must be removed from the breeding program.

    You must only breed the very best of the best. You have to use structually correct high quality animals. For us this has worked out very well.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Inbred..how much is too much?

    Perfect example of a tight-bred dog:


    She's 75% inbred on my Hannibal dog. http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com...?dog_id=206097

  9. #9
    Suki Guest

    Default Re: Inbred..how much is too much?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoPulldogs
    A couple of years ago we did a very, very tight breeding, for several reasons.

    1. Our blood is getting old, not that many folks have dogs how ours are bred.
    2. We needed to check the genetic integretity of the line.
    3. Type is already set in our dogs....ya pretty much know your going to get buckskin dogs with black masks that are structually correct, free of health problems...nice solid bulldogs with tremendous working drive.
    4. Needed brood dogs that would produce what they are no matter what we chose to outcross them too.

    Mind you we have had this group/line of dogs for around 20yrs. We bred a 7/8 male to a 3/4 female. Breeding tight will usually restrict the litter size..it will be a smaller litter. The $#@! was 9 1/2 when she was bred, fully checked by our vet. Who by the way swore there was no way that she could have been that old..LOL Trust me she was 9 1/2 and in great shape. She delivered 3 pups (she was spayed immediately after delivery)...one stillborn and 2 females. These females are very, very nice little 33lb & 36lb dogs. They are almost 2 now and very healthy, sound of mind and body bulldogs. With drive to boot.

    This is something I definately do not recommend that just everyone do. You have to know your dogs ancestory for many generations and what it is throwing. If there are dogs with any defects (no work drive, straight stiffled, bowlegged, out of standard in any way) they must be removed from the breeding program.

    You must only breed the very best of the best. You have to use structually correct high quality animals. For us this has worked out very well.


    great advice!
    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to MoPulldogs again.



    (sorry)

  10. #10
    Suki Guest

    Default Re: Inbred..how much is too much?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rockstar
    Perfect example of a tight-bred dog:


    She's 75% inbred on my Hannibal dog. http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com...?dog_id=206097
    indeed she is!

  11. #11
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Inbred..how much is too much?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rockstar
    Perfect example of a tight-bred dog:


    She's 75% inbred on my Hannibal dog. http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com...?dog_id=206097
    If Hannibal was tighter bred would you still breed as close with him? It looks to me that hannibal is redboy, bolio/maloney,ofrn,rascal. Do dogs like hannibal produce better when bred real close or a family type breeding? Also how would the pups(lilbit) off that breeding produce? just looking at papers what kind of dog would lilbit be bred too?

  12. #12

    Default Re: Inbred..how much is too much?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky's Human
    Show off!
    I agree, but she is a Great looking dog, best I've seen in these parts LMAO

  13. #13
    Attila Guest

    Default Re: Inbred..how much is too much?

    I hear the trumpets of some folks blowing their own horns. lol Ya she is a good looking dog.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marty
    I agree, but she is a Great looking dog, best I've seen in these parts LMAO

  14. #14

    Default Re: Inbred..how much is too much?

    Quote Originally Posted by Attila Magyar
    I hear the trumpets of some folks blowing their own horns. lol Ya she is a good looking dog.
    Well I was messing with Rockstar on that one LOL

  15. #15
    MercedesMama Guest

    Default Re: Inbred..how much is too much?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marty
    Well I was messing with Rockstar on that one LOL
    Sure you were..LOL! Go ahead Marty lets hear it "TOOT, TOOT"

  16. #16
    Suki Guest

    Default Re: Inbred..how much is too much?

    hey, when it's there, it's there!!!!!

  17. #17
    MercedesMama Guest

    Default Re: Inbred..how much is too much?

    LOL! If my dogs looked like that I'd be tootin too..lol

  18. #18
    Join Date
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    LA
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    Default Re: Inbred..how much is too much?

    Quote Originally Posted by NcPrisonGuard
    I've got a buddy of mine who just had a litter of pups a little while back, and he's picked "the best" female from this litter and is planning on breeding it back to the sire.. I'm not sure what he's looking to get out of it. But I know you can breed back and inbreed to get certain characteristics from the dam/sire and such.. but how much is too much. How long before he can expect to see gimpy dogs or deformed dogs? I know the genes and such are different than humans.. but too much of the same genes has got to eventually start producing some defomed dogs.. right?
    You know youve gone too far when the energy level and fertility has decreased. At that point is time to out cross. Keep all pups, CULL HARD(did I say cull hard), and that is one of the best ways to see what's lurking behind your doggies genetic pool. As to the freakish dogs showing up, that is the recessive traits coming forward, cull those dogs and keep the ones that are not having the unwanted traits. Keep doing this and eventually you will have a very reproducable breeding program, with no hidden flaws. When the fertility drops, and they become kinda lethargic, it is time to out cross. A person who practiced two seperate inbreeding programs at the same, with different lines, could feesably at the point of lethargy cross the two, and if the two lines were hotshots, could come up with one heck of a cross!!
    It is not for those wanting to get rich. It is not for someone who wants 5or6 dogs, it is for someone who can actually farm out(which I dont like, never know when one may go bad)or keep a considerable number of dogs on the place.You could start with one bood $#@!, breed her to a male in that line, maybe even her dad, then all of a sudden you got 11dogs, for 2-3 years, then say you cull 3 of them, still at 11, so you breed a brother to a sister, etc, maybe mom back to son, then you have possibly 50 dogs! By now the recessive traits will begin to surface more rapidly, and 2-3 years go by and your back down to say...20. Brother sister again, not breeding to the foundation $#@! no more, as these your breeding with now have already pulled some of the bad traits out that were in her hiding. But now you got possible 200 dogs on the ground!!( I am kinda being extreme with it, but you see how quickly the #'s can grow) Say you cull half. That's still 100 dogs you have for 3 more years(it takes time for some traits to surface, in casr your wondering)Some you can tell real quick, and the more you do this the easier it is to spot. After 10 years, and a whole bank role, you have ended up with a yard of 30 dogs that are second to none(if you started with great blood), a whole volume of experience, and would be someone that I like to have conversation with. Now, double that with two different lines at the same time, and your ready to have a worthy outcross. Cause if you just outcross to anything, or a good dog that has been producing, you do not know what is hiding in the gene pool. So the whole thing will start over again. The time will come though, that you will have to outcross.
    I hope that was simple enough to understand. That is why people say when you inbreed you get crap, cause they sell the crap, and dont cull. In line breeding is skippiing a generation in the breeding, out and in, etc, grandpa to grand daughter, and that is a safer way to breed if you will not cull hard, and the hidden stuff usually stays hidden. The third way is to scatter breed.

    I'll shut up now.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Inbred..how much is too much?

    keep it coming guys....

  20. #20
    Attila Guest

    Default Re: Inbred..how much is too much?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marty
    Well I was messing with Rockstar on that one LOL
    No worries I like the music. lol It's all good. I do that myself some times. ya know. When the yard is just damn hot you got to make a little noise. lol

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