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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
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    Midwest
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    Default Re: Pitbull Ads based on colors...Merle?

    Didn't merles have their papers revoked and can only be registered with the CKC? IMO, merle is the ugliest pattern on a dog. Especially in pit bulls.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Texas
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    Default Re: Pitbull Ads based on colors...Merle?

    this pretty much explains the gene involved and it's level of dominance. This genetic trait would take to much time to describe fully. (Dappled is Merle some breeds call merle dappled)

    M (Merle) series - PATTERN
    ALLELE
    DESCRIPTION
    ALLELE PAIRS THAT WILL SHOW THE TRAIT
    M
    DAPPLE

    DOMINANT, cannot be carried as recessive
    can act with piebald and/or brindling on the same dog
    can have two dark eyes, one dark eye & one blue eye, or two blue eyes
    dark eyes can have blue spots (dappled eyes)
    only dappled dogs can have blue or dappled eyes
    source of:
    dapple (Mm) and double dapple (MM)

    MM , Mm
    m
    NO DAPPLING

    RECESSIVE to M

    mm




    A dog cannot carry for dappling. If one M is present, the dog is dappled.

    Sometimes a puppy from a dappled parent may appear solid colored,
    when in fact there is a tiny spot of dappling present that goes unnoticed.
    That puppy can produce dappled offspring, even though he may be
    mistakenly registered as a solid colored dog.
    While a dappled parent can produce solid colored offspring,
    be very careful when evaluating their solid colored puppies.
    If a puppy has blue or dappled eyes (one or both), they are dappled.
    A dappled dog who has some white on their chest, toes, or tail
    is not necessarily a double dapple.
    It is generally accepted that a double dapple
    has at least 25% white showing on their coat.
    A double dapple can only be produced by two dappled parents,
    and can be born blind and/or deaf.
    A double dappled dog can only produce dappled or double dappled puppies.
    A dappled piebald will show dappling in the colored areas, not the white areas.

    So you either have the gene or you don't this is why many ppl are gaining the gene by mixing APBT's with Catahula Leopard dogs. That's where they get the gene otherwise they'd have to get it from a very tightly breed family of dogs which everynow and then produces a merle. Even then most breeders that breed a close family of dogs would cull the merle pup and never sell it with out it first being de-sexed.
    Last edited by cemoreno; 07-14-2006 at 12:45 PM.

  3. #23

    Default Re: Pitbull Ads based on colors...Merle?

    Quote Originally Posted by WWII
    Didn't merles have their papers revoked and can only be registered with the CKC? IMO, merle is the ugliest pattern on a dog. Especially in pit bulls.
    I believe the ADBA pulled the papers on some merles registered with them. The UKC didn't pull the papers but made the color either a DQ or a serious fault for the show ring. I've heard the arguements in favor of the color, but I still tend to believe it was introduced through outcross to another breed.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
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    Default Re: Pitbull Ads based on colors...Merle?

    *sigh* I cannot believe we are beating this dead horse yet again.

    Merle was made a DQ in both the ADBA & UKC. However, this was due to the actions of a bad breeder, not b/c merle itself was bad, unhealthy or inferior.

    The ADBA voided papers on all merles off Boham's Venom. However, merles not off Venom have NOT had their papers voided. ADBA will not register any more new merle dogs however, even if the parents are ADBA reg.

    I'm not sure, but I don't think the UKC hasn't pulled any papers at all. I think they just made merle a DQ for the show ring.

    Merle can be reg. w/ any other kennel club. The only ones that frown upon merle are ADBA, UKC & AAPBR. But all the other smaller clubs accept merle. Bigger clubs such as AADR & BFKC (among others) also accept merle.

    But PLEASE do not tell that to the ppl who are peddling that inferior bred Platinum/Madison merle junk. H. Madison has taken all his questionably bred merles to the CKC & all who have his dogs have followed suit. They do not know any reputable clubs still accept merle & it is better that way.

    But back to the point ... the restrictions of the ADBA/UKC concerning merle are only a recent policy. Until a little over a year ago, both clubs had been happily registering merles & for 90+ years merle was an accepted color & not considered a fault. Only when irresponsible breeding of merles became a problem was merle made a DQ.

    I will say however, there are indeed some merles that are the result of a mix. But there are brindles who are mixed too & there are rednoses who are mixed as well.

    The fact of the matter is while there are merles who are mixed, there are some merles that are purebred APBTs as well. According to the ADBA, merle has always been in the breed.

    In my research old dogmen told me the same. I was told however merle was culled nearly to the point of extinction in the breed b/c of the lethal to semi-lethal properties of merle in it's pure form. As such, the color was little seen in the breed for generations until it was discovered by a color breeder named Howard Madison who began peddling the color like it was going out of style. Then merle - like blue before it - went from being a virtual unknown to being on every street corner.

    As for health, heterozygous merles (also called clean merles or normal merles) are the product of merle x non-merle breeding & are just as healthy as any other color. Homozygous merles (also called dirty merles, pure merles or double merles) are the product of a merle x merle breeding & are very unhealthy.

    There are 2 kinds of double merles, those are lethal whites & semi-lethal merles. The lethal whites are white or nearly white dogs. They are often blue eyed. Many are stillborn or die shortly after birth, hence the term lethal white. Those that live are often blind, deaf or suffer from various defects.

    Semi-lethal merles look like normal merles but often suffer from auto-immune disorders, heart valve problems, sterility or organ failure among other problems. One of the reasons they are referred to as semi-lethal b/c this type of dirty merle is often live born & lives past puppyhood. Some die or are put down from defects as fairly young dogs, while a few live to be of a fairly normal age. Hence the term semi-lethal.

    If bred, dirty merles of both types can pass on problems. However any & all problems can be avoided by doing one simple thing - never breed merle to merle & never breed a merle from a dirty line. Pretty simple.

    I myself have owned & bred merles for almost 10 years & I can tell you from first hand experince that clean merles are not unhealthy. They are just as healthy as other colors.

    As for merle not being able to be carried - guess what? It can! This is b/c while a dominant, merle needs dark pigment to express itself. In the presence of light pigment merle will be expressed weakly, if it's expressed if at all!

    So if merle acts on a coat that does not have sufficent pigment the result will be a dog that is genetically merle, but looks non-merle! These dogs are called cryptic merles or phantom merles.

    Here is a page that may help:

    http://www.geocities.com/abkapbts1/merleorigin

    To answer your original question Petey, blue & merle are not the same, nor are they colors. They are actually considered modifiers in that they instead modify colors that have been predetermined by genes at other locations.

    Blue is the result of a complete dilution gene (called dilute) acting on a black coat. Dilute prohibits the formatuion of black pigment. If dilute acts on a red coat, the dog will be red/rednosed. If dilute acts on a chocolate coat, the dog will be blue fawn. If dilute acts on a black coat, the dog will be blue.

    Merle is the result of an incomplete dilution gene called merle. If merle acts on a chocolate coat the dog will be red merle. If merle acts on a black coat, the dog will be blue merle.
    Last edited by ABK; 07-14-2006 at 11:49 PM.

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