terriers

I think the key to knowing if terrier blood was actually crossed to bulldog blood to eventually become the APBT,we'd have to know at the time the cross was said to happen what where terriers like?

where they hard earth dogs like the patterdale for example,
that could go for long periods of time without food or water all the while mixing with its quarry?

or where they just all round farm dogs that would kill rats and other vermin but nothing more than a small highly driven mutt?

what do you think?

 

no one got an opinion on this?

i was hoping some who've studied into the history of terrier's would answer.

 

this is a little history of why they added terrier blood. when bullbading was banned the disited 2 fight dogs thay already has bulldogge blood for power so they added terrier blood for agility so they could b more quick and tire the other dog out. and then go for the kill

 

This kid is trolling right?:p

 

As I said in another thread, Tapiajr is just a walking fountain of useless rumors, wives tales, and myths - all of which he believes to be true and will readily spout all over the boards.

 

i think we are at a loss if we try to imagine what the old terriers were actually like. eg it is only recently that jrt,s ~parsons terriers and such like became recognised . we know fairly little of the extinct old english white terrier and of the dogs which our ancsestors may have called terriers.was any pest killer vermin hunter loosely called terrier? it"s not to hard to imagine dogs of 20~30pounds.game as hell but lacking in stature to do battle in a sporting sence.hence the crosses began ,this is only my opinion !

 

Here is some info on 1 of the dogs said to be used in the making of the pitbull if you google it you will find various different stories but all very much simular.



The Blue Paul Terrier, which looks a lot like the pit dogs of our day and age, is unfortunately extinct. They used to be powerful dogs, yet could not survive into the 20th century, mainly due to lack of selective breeding in the United States as well as in European countries. Additionally, these dogs were made to fight each other till death since they had extraordinary fighting skills, which may have led to a great decline in their numbers. Where they came from has been a point of debate even when they existed and where they have gone seems to have become another mystery of modern times.


The Blue Paul Terrier was a strong, athletic and powerful dog. It had a short smooth coat of fur, like many other pit dogs of today. As the name suggests, the color of the coat was deep blue, not unlike some of the greyhounds of today. In some cases, there were shades of other colors present, mainly red, known as smuts in Scotland, where they were known to have existed. Paul is included in the name of this dog since it is widely believed that John Paul Jones, a sailor, first brought this dog to the USA in 1777.


Their height, which has been documented, came up to about 50 centimeters. They were known to weigh about 20 kilos in adulthood. Their head tended to look a little large for their bodies. They also had a flat forehead, which is typical of modern pit dogs. But, unlike modern bulldogs, their muscles did not recede. Instead they tended to be broad and large as well as square. They had a very even set of teeth, with no flews hanging over. There used to be a slight dip in the forehead, just between their eyes.


The eyes of the Blue Paul Terrier used to be a dark shade of hazel. Also, they tended not to be sunken like many other bulldogs. The eyebrows of the Blue Paul Terrier had the ability to knit and contract, giving them a whole range of expressions one rarely sees in purebred dogs. The only dogs known to have expressive faces are usually hybrid dogs, who inherit different sets of musculature from each parent. The ears of the Blue Paul Terrier were also rather distinctive. To begin with, they were quite small, but were held upright and they tended to be thin. More often than not, their ears tended to be cropped.


The body of the Blue Paul terrier was considered round, but muscular. It had a deep chest cavity, which was also wide, giving the dog a rounded look. Its back was short and broad, adding to the feeling of roundedness. The tail of the Blue Paul terrier always tended to be low, so low that it could never be raised above the height of the back. The tail did not have any fringe.


The Blue Paul terrier could stand firm and straight on the ground on all four paws. All its legs were strong. The front legs were not curvy in the least; instead they were muscular and stout. The hind legs were also equally muscular and strong.

 

I know about that time there as the black and tan terrier which was medium size dog with good muscle, but i dont know if that was used or not in the breeding with the bulldog..

 

saying that selective breeding old english bulldogs together to get what we now call the apbt is like saying u can cross the apbt together and get those fuckin bullies. i dont really see how people can really believe they are pure bulldogs...

 

Its because of a mental trait I like to call selective intellect. Meaning they select to be fucking morons so they can call their bullshit APBT. LMAO

 

ha ha ha so true

 

You would hope somebody couldn't be that damn dumb.

 

Hi there!

I do think that this Terrier crossed in theory is somewhat mixed up with the history of the English Bullterrier as James Hinks did cross other breeds to the old gamedogs to create a attractive showdog.

To me its more like a description for the dogs purpose.

Pit = dogfight / Bull = Bullbaiting / Terrier = hunting and badger baitings etc.

Sound more or less logical to me than the theory of crossing some untested stuff into dogs that already shown that they can do the job!

Just my oppinion!

 

i tend to think that IF terrier blood was added one of the main functions would be to reduce size as oppose to improving performance.

owning a bigger dog's of no advantage if its going into dogs the same weight,so if food and money was tight why would people want big pit dog's that will eat and cost more?

 

The english white and black and tan terriers were mixed in with various bull dogs to bring down the size of bull dogs for combat, since they were no longer used for fighting bulls. So yes, terriers were pretty much only added to reduce size and add agility I think. They just happened to have the same sort of primitive gameness that the bull dogs had.
As for the history of terriers, they were very tenacious, just read about pit ratting.

 

the more i think about it , it seems logical to me to have used the smooth coated fox terrier type dogs for certain crosses. due to there tenacity and type..

 

I think terrier's would just of been a type,obviously they will have varied, but due to the very nature of there work you wouldnt think the very hard dogs would of survived long.

and what would be the advantage of crossing a dog that didnt want to mix with a fox/badger to a bulldog?

i could be wrong and maybe the terriers of old were hard dogs.

 

seine fishing fuc trolling *laughing*

 

and like on another post... i believe what we call "pitbulls" have been around for along time under different names... i dont think they were "orginated" in 18whatever but as historical pictures show they have dogs that look damn near like spitting images to pit bulls... now over time have ppl added shit to the soup sure because every man is there own man and did what they wanted and still do... but a bull and terrier to me no... i believe english bulldogs and all (i cant spell it but) brachyollis breeds were "invented" to please the noble ppl by selective breeding... but "pitbulls" not so much they were already around with a different name doing different things

 

Id say it was more like bulldog blood was added to terriers to make dogs suitable for the rat pits and badger trials.The rev john russell of jackrussell/foxterrier fame apparantly wouldnt use smooth haired dogs or brindle as he thought they had bulldog not too far back-so it must have been a fairly common practice.Maybe some dogs that threw to the bulldog side were put back to other bulldogs.