What Has The Breed Become?

In many cases yes they are loosing their gameness. On all cases no, I still see a few owners being active but this is definitely in the minority. We are working on will be to highlight means by which people can be active in ways to show the working qualities of the breed such as drive, strength, intelligence, loyalty, unwavering determination and more. All the aspects that make up a true game nature.

We do feel that if the traits that help make up gameness are not intentionally kept and worked on through legal means then over time they will be for the most part lost to the breed. This is already becoming evident through fad representations of the breed and how many are choosing it to prop up their own ego but attendance and sporting event participation at events is becoming less and less.

How are you breeding for strength and intelligence and how are these attributes being tested and proven?

 

Your argument is the equivilent to someone saying the potency of marijuana will die out for the most part because it is illegal to cultivate.

rightttt

 

Great analogy,that really puts it into context.

 

I do not quite see the relationship in the analogy. Please explain. I would see the relationship if the issue was stated as:

If fighting were made legal less would participate in fighting.

I do think however that the US will accept marijuana legalization far sooner than they will for legalization of fighting. Fighting Pits I believe is a true part of past history and if anything the trend will spread to other countries where fighting is not currently illegal.

Given this scenario what other things can be done to test for game. In my opinion I do not think it will be a single event as fighting was but will instead be a culmination of events that test the individual aspects of game life strength, determination, drive and mental stability.

 

The analogy is basically that regardless of laws people will continue to grow high quality marijuana,just as regardless of laws people will continue to keep the dogs true to standard.Just because its illegal dosen't mean people will stop doing it.

I agree that marijuana would be legalized long before matching dogs would,but i disagree that it will just move on to other countries because its legal there.The perfect marijuana analogy could be used again,its perfectly legal to grow and use marijuana in other countries,but people stay here where its illegal and continue to grow,and use it regardless of the laws.

As far as " what else can be done to test for gameness?" that's simple,NOTHING there is only one way to test for gameness.

 

I believe as Colby has stated there are other means to test game.

Colby – “While a dog may become a pit champion by defeating three mediocre dogs, and be himself a very mediocre dog of questionable gameness, in the sport of weight pulling the dog will always come up against an opponent (the weight) that is unvarying in quality. (Colby’s Book Of The American Pit Bull Terier p. 57)

So then without vagueness please define the term "game".

 

American super dog, I'm sure you mean well, you go right ahead and do all those activities you suggest. You should even use colby dogs to do them with. Call them anything you like and most certainly promote clubs, and groups that feel the same way. I believe there are many handing out all those different titles, and a little politics goes a long way. But Do Not try to understand the Game Bred APBT because you just don't get it.

 

Lmao super dog ur a retard there is only one way to game test.

 

What has happened to the breed? Let me tell you, show people, weight pull people and people that use there dogs for schutzhund shit type of work! HAVE RUINED IT! for the people that have kept this breed alive by selective breeding for years.

 

Super Doggy ,,sound's like d jessup lol

 

How is that?If they doing there thing. How does pull and show stock's intention's effect other's stock with a different intent in there own yard and own stock and there own breeding intent?

 

outrightmike I think if you are involved in anything (legal) with your dog this shows you are positive contributor to the skill set that dog has. A true Pit Bull yearns for challenge and interaction. Aspects of "game" include strength, determination, drive and more that weight pull and other activities can help prove.


Louis Colby – “While a dog may become a pit champion by defeating three mediocre dogs, and be himself a very mediocre dog of questionable gameness, in the sport of weight pulling the dog will always come up against an opponent (the weight) that is unvarying in quality. (Colby’s Book Of The American Pit Bull Terier p. 57)

Unfortunately the one varying quality that hurts the breed the most that is most important to determining its true gameness is one that the dog itself has no control over - the owner. Sure a dog can be mass game even with a non-invested owner but it only reaches its peak of gameness through human involvement. Loyalty to please is a game aspect that can only be matched to an owner who has an expectation of the dog and then pushes the boundaries for more thus helping the dog achieve more than it even expects of itself.
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shortbedder, deadgame33, Nomad
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I am accused of not knowing true game. Can someone give me a clear definition?

According to Louis Colby game can be tested in several ways including weight pull.

Here is a quote from my original post:

“Sure people can argue the point that fighting is not legal and can fall on the tired argument that the only way to really game test is through the fighting pit. Is this not however just a copout or is this reflective of just how little imagination the world and registries have when it comes to testing the drive, determination and don’t give up attitude that are really at the heart of the term “game”.”

 

Well i respect Mr colby and what he's done,but with that said he is bat shit crazy if he thinks hooking some weight behind a dog and making it pull will display gamness.Weight pulling dispalys strength,drive,and the will to please the owner,and that's about it.Just because colby says something doesn't mean its the end all be either.Ask him this...when he was matching dogs did he hook them to a pull cart to check them??? I didn't think so.

 

I do not think he was meaning the entire package of game that the pit would show. I think he was speaking more to different aspects that make up game. I think if anyone wsa to put forth a comprehensive definition of game that strength, drive and will to please the owner would certainly be in the list of traits.

People should not get me wrong in thinking that I believe that any one activity will replace the pit in terms of showing the complete and full nature of what a game dog is. In my view absent the pit it is going to be necessary to draw together several activities that each in themselves test one or more individual aspects of game and it is understanding the full culminaiton of these that we will better understand the game nature of the dog in question.

For example I would not put it past Colby to have hooked weights to his lines for training purpose. Although I do not know for sure about weights I think it is unquestionable that he used other activities such as treadmills to refine specific game traits. His family still sells these. In his book he refers to other work also.

 

I didn't say he didn't use weight to train them,i said he didn't use weight to game check them huge difference.There has been and only ever will be one way to truly check a dog.All that other stuff is bullshit,might as well just forget about even attempting other activities, cause your just gonna end up with amstaffs any way.Take me for instance,im not worried if my dog is game or not ,cause i don't partake in illegal activites.So why even worry about finding another way to game check him?

Let me ask you this...if there was another way to game check him ,and he didn't make the cut,what would you do?You would just continue on with your plans to breed him anyway,so whats it really matter?

 

:0047:..........

 

:deadhorse:

 

You cant game test a dog with pulling.The desire to keep working and to keep after a hog with broken legs and wounds is a different game.

 

Man, to much to quote and reply back to.


I used the marijuana analogy because of the points james made. There will always be those who defy the law and there will always be places where those laws are not intact or not upheld. The preservation of the breed is left to those who defy law, live in a place where that law is not intact or upheld, just like marijuana.

 

Well said Venom.IMO the only way to check the gameness of this breed is to put mature dogs in the [].The only way to know if you have a real APBT an not some ADBA comformation dog,is to defy the law.I like how the Germans breed there dogs,they have a breed warden that looks at every pup in the litter if said pup is not right it is culled right there an then.Now before the sire an dam must pass a test an this test is a working test,the dogs must preform what they were created for if they fail they are culled this is why top class breeders are useing imported studs an dams in their programs.90% of the true working dogs in the USA are imported from the EU.Most of you all breed for looks an not what the dog was bred for.JMO.