vintage pit dogs and rules

Don't forget Hooten's Butcher Boy

 

heres a example of an old report:



Lloyd's four hundred dollars ($400), there being an allowance of one hundred
dollars ($100) for Lloyd's expenses to and from Pittsburg, Ky.' thus Louis
Kreiger wagers one thousand($1,000) to Charles Lloyd's nine hundred
dollars ($900).
The said Charles Lloyd and the said Louis Krieger do hereby agree that
should the authorities in any way interfere or try to stop or prevent the
said battle, that the referee shall have full power to name the next time
and place of fighting. It is also agreed that the referee shall insist on
the dogs being again weighed, and the said weighing shall be within thirty
minutes before the time named by the referee for the fight to be decided.
Should there be any after interference the dogs shall again be weighed day
after day, and neither will be allowed to exceed 28 pounds in weight.
It is further agreed that the handlers shall each taste the other's dog and
sponge them with wet sponge. The sponge used shall then be squeezed into
each other's dog's mouth in order to prove there is no poison or pernicious
drugs placed on them. After the dogs have been tasted neither of the sponges
must be changed.
In pursuance of this agreement the said Charles Lloyd and the said Louis
Kreiger do hereby agree to comply with the rules embodied in this agreement
or forfeit the money now deposited with the stakeholder. It is also agreed
that the battle shall be fought according tot he Police Gazette's revised
rules of dog-fighting.
MANY COME TO WATCH THE DOG-FIGHT Five a.m. on the morning of the contest, the roads leading to the
battle-ground were crowded with vehicles of every description. Kreiger had
Crib in a buggy, and Pilot was conveyed in a closed carriage. At 6:30 the
party arrived at Garr's farm, six miles from Louisville, Six miles out of
this pike was a rough-looking old barn, which the writer tells us "was as
illy fitted up for a dog-fight as it would have been for a high-toned
wedding." A pit thirteen by sixteen feet was erected in one end of the barn,
and in this dilapidated old building the crowd was quickly wedged. Harding,
the referee, however, was not satisfied with the conditions of the building
interior, and every one was forced to outside while the barn was cleaned up.
Whether it would have then been fit for a "high-toned wedding" is not known,
but Mr. Harding finally adjudged it suitable for the dog-fight. Before the
would-be spectators were allowed to return "Cockney Charley,' who didn't
propose to lose a cent," said that everybody would have to pay a dollar to
get in and see the fight. Some did, but not a few climbed in through holes
in the sides of the building.
It was around 7:15 when the dogs were weighed in. Pilot scaled twenty-seven
and three-quarters pounds, being one-quarter of a pound heavier than Crib.
Betting was "pretty lively even up" as the referee tossed up a silver, or
what the report describes as a trade dollar, for choice of corners and
washing. Kreiger won the toss and decided Pilot should be washed first. In
Garr's farmhouse everything was ready for the washing. In the kitchen, in
which were Mrs. Garr's two daughters and a baby, the washing was done in the
presence of the referee. Pilot was placed in a tub of warm water and washed
thoroughly, he was then washed in warm milk, and Kreiger tasted him to see
if there had been any red pepper placed upon him. Pilot was then dried with
towels which had been examined by the referee and thenput in blankets.
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Crib was then "put through the same course of sprouts." And now the dogs
were brought to the pit, which, we are given to understand, was surrounded
by some of the most important men of Louisville.
CROWD EXCITEMENT AND THE FIGHT BEGINS Intense excitement prevailed when the dogs were placed in the pit. Chief of
the Louisville Fire Department Hughes announced the desire of the referee
that both handlers be searched. The handlers searched each other's clothes
thoroughly, being solicitous that nothing was concealed that might cause
injury to the opposing dog. When this ceremony was gone through with, the
word was given at 9:20 to let go the dogs. Their blankets and muzzles were
speedily removed and the dogs set at liberty. But let Mr. Harding tell the
story in the words he reported in the paper of which he was the sports
editor:
Both uttered low growls, and then, with one savage bound, Crib sprang to
Pilot's corner and attacked his antagonist. He caught Pilot by the nose, but
the brindle dog shook him off and grasped him by the right leg. Pilot
loosened his hold upon Crib's leg to get a better one upon his throat. Crib
succeeded in freeing himself, and once more caught Pilot by the nose, only
to loosen it almost instantly and seize Pilot by the back of the neck and
ear, throwing him down. While down Pilot got Crib by the breast and had a
terrible hold, but being unable to retain his hold to any good advantage,
let go and grasped Crib by the left ear. Then in turn Pilot loosened the
ear-hold and got Crib's left front leg between his molars. As he pressed his
jaws together the bones in Crib's leg fairly cracked. This terrible
punishment seemed only to enrage the Louisville dog the more, for with one
great effort he threw Pilot five times in succession with the ear hold. Crib
again seized Pilot by the nose, which, by the way, seemed to be his favorite
hold, and once more downed the New York dog. As quick as a flash he let go
Pilot's nose and went to chewing Pilot's front leg. With the fighting that
Crib was now doing the Louisville people thought him a sure winner of the
fight.
But it now came Pilot's turn to do some fighting, and the manner in which he
viciously chewed Crib's left leg was terrible to behold. Crib, with a growl,
broke loose only to be caught again in the same way. With another effort
Crib once more gained his freedom, and for fully five minutes the dogs
fought with ear-holds, until finally Pilot downed Crib and while holding him
by the ear, bumped his head on the floor of the pit. Crib secured a hold on
Pilot's throat, and although only fighting on three legs, succeeded in
throwing his antagonist. This seemed to incense Pilot, for he threw Crib
with a throat-hold and again with a hind-leg-hold. Crib returned with a
leg-hold on Pilot, and then a bet of $100 was made that Crib would win the
fight. The bet was promptly taken by "Cockney Charley," the owner of Pilot.
CRIB IS DOWN, PILOTTHE CONQUEROR The fight had now lasted forty-two minutes. Crib succeeded in getting from
under his adversary, but the poor critter's gameness was gone. He turned to
the side of the pit and was in the act of leaping out when he was grabbed by
the brindle dog and dragged back into the field of battle. Crib was a
whipped dog at this moment, but Pilot, not content with the victory already
achieved, determined to kill his antagonist while the opportunity of so
doing was at his command. Crib once more turned to the side of the pit, and
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this time succeeded in getting outside, followed by Pilot, who seized the
Louisville pet by the under jaw and, clinging on to him, refused to loosen
his hold, necessitating the picking up of the dogs together and placing them
again in the pit. Pilot threw Crib in the corner with an ear-hold and held
him there. Kreiger fanned Crib vigorously with his hat, but did the dog no
good, for he was fast failing. From this time on Pilot did nothing but
endeavor to shake the little life out of Crib that still remained.
The fight lasted exactly one hour and twenty-five minutes. Just as the winning party reached the depot to make their departure for New York, up dashed Kreiger and said to "Cockney Charley" Lloyd:
"I told you I would stand treat if I lost, and I'm here to keep my word."
And he kept his word. No getting away from it, the Louisville gentleman was
a thorough sport. He amply proved this when he permitted his nearly dead dog to be dragged back into the pit by the conquering Pilot. Sins of New York
As "Exposed" by the Police Gazette
By Edward Van Every
Publisher:Frederick A. Stokes Company--New York
Copyright: 19303 PrintingsOctober 15, October 23 and October 30.
Prepared and Transcribed Exclusively for the Brooklyn Pages, by Miriam Medina

 

before cajun rules folks used al brown rules, police gazette rules, old english rules........

heard a bunch of stuff on these...........but would anyone care to elaborate?

 

Ch billy sunday 8xw.............

still at least they called him a champion and he was undefeated

 

Thats becuase the term Grand Champion did not exist at that time.

 

not true ........look above Gr CH kager had pinscher and Gr CH duffy in his ped. they existed at the same time. In fact colbys pinschers 24xw dam was colbys CH pansey 3xw

 

I always tought that the term Gr Ch was stated by the old SDJ. :confused:

 

that makes 2 of us, lol.

Some dogs are referred to as Ch with more than 5xw others get no title with countless xw least of all Gr CH...........go figure?

 

one point of conformity..........theres no CH with less than 3xw :cool:

 

The old books with pics of Kager & Duffy's Jack etc. make no mention of them being GR CH, that's because there was no such thing back in those days! If a dog from that era is now labeled a GR CH, it is only because someone has added the title later on. This is why when you look at peds online (or whatever it's called) you see dogs called GR CH's, that technically weren't at the time. people have just added the title to any dog who may have won more than 5x, without them officially being so. Surely this is not hard to follow!!!!

 

ThreeOrangeWhips is correct the term Gr Ch Didnt exist way back then , Even in regular UKC show dogs its just Ch. also a term you might have seen way back then was Champion of America . The SDJ created the Official GrCh title the first was Boomerang followed by Giroux GrCh Carlo .

 

thanks for clearing that up..........got any info on the pre cajun rules?

 

I think the dead dog could win if they didnt

 

We would have better dogs today if that rule was still in play........how many dogs would do it......most dont if you ask me. JMO

 

Can you explain why you think we would have better dogs by scratching into a dead opponent:confused:

My opinion is that it says nothing about the gameness of a dog by scratching into opponent who will certainly not punish back...
i.e. where is the challenge?

 

primarily matching was to win money.......which took an exceptional animal against stiff competition. That being the case, dogmen would breed a 2xw to protect their line prior to entering him for his CH. If the dog in question would finish the job more the better but if he had to compete to the old standard the stock down from the 2xw would have had that trait in order to breed.

Most dogs will scratch to a perceived threat........however small but very few would scratch after a close match going on for 1 hour 30 mins plus.

 

If your dog was bred to the old standard he would have that trait........he would have to finish the job or his handler would finish him. The team would not keep/bred a competition animal that would not win to the old standard.

YIS

 

case in point:

The fight had now lasted forty-two minutes. Crib succeeded in getting from
under his adversary, but the poor critter's gameness was gone. He turned to
the side of the pit and was in the act of leaping out when he was grabbed by
the brindle dog and dragged back into the field of battle. Crib was a
whipped dog at this moment, but Pilot, not content with the victory already
achieved, determined to kill his antagonist while the opportunity of so
doing was at his command. Crib once more turned to the side of the pit, and
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this time succeeded in getting outside, followed by Pilot, who seized the
Louisville pet by the under jaw and, clinging on to him, refused to loosen
his hold, necessitating the picking up of the dogs together and placing them
again in the pit. Pilot threw Crib in the corner with an ear-hold and held
him there. Kreiger fanned Crib vigorously with his hat, but did the dog no
good, for he was fast failing. From this time on Pilot did nothing but
endeavor to shake the little life out of Crib that still remained.
The fight lasted exactly one hour and twenty-five minutes. Just as the winning party reached the depot to make their departure for New York, up dashed Kreiger and said to "Cockney Charley" Lloyd:
"I told you I would stand treat if I lost, and I'm here to keep my word."
And he kept his word. No getting away from it, the Louisville gentleman was
a thorough sport. He amply proved this when he permitted his nearly dead dog to be dragged back into the pit by the conquering Pilot

 

Of course there were big money contests even for those days...
But I doubt that it was primarily for the money, hence the term "poor mans race horse".
And many of a good dog was lost because the owner was too greedy due to the high stakes involved... (but that's an other discussion)

From the old days into 50's of the former century the rules were changed.
For a reason... to protect the dogs!
This by speeding up the outcome of the match, think of "out of hold count", completing scratch in bite/mouth/touch the other dog etc.
So the oldtimers had a good reason to change the rules!

The sole reason for a match is to made up who has the better dog...

The dogs used for breeding purposes are "the road" to better dogs.
And these dogs do not have to be match dogs at all.

Suppose a contest will stop by a winning dog scratching into your dg dog, who just has lost his life because of shock.
That would be a big loss for 2 good reasons!
First you lost yourself a damn good dog, and 2nd you missed a great opportunity to improve your line of dogs with a dog that has the "right heart"...

The oldtimers changed these rules in a time when it was not illegal to match your dogs. So I suppose they had a very good reason by doing this...
And if changing of these rules would have given dogs of lesser quality than before. The "new" rules would have never made it

Just my 2ct...