game,can it be lost?

All game dogs will quit under the right circumstances. Don't kid yourselves. Bad keep. Change of owners. Wrong opponent. And, like somebody mentioned, the only dead game dogs are dead dogs.

 

game is more genetic but he can loose it b/c the other part of it is training and conditioning so he can loose a part of it but if hes got good blood he will still have some game but not wat his full potential is jmo:rolleyes:

 

You getting aggression confused with gameness. It might take that mutherscooter a minute to wake up but when he do its on. Or he wasn't game from the start. I had on that don't see a hunt in years breed every tuesday and played the rest of the week. I had one of those female that didn't won't to breed she slung him from pillar to post and he keep coming back for more. I was by myself, with no separtion tool. Luckily she was still on the chain because i never would got them apart i made a handle Maurice Carver would been proud of.

 

i see by the replies still a lot of newbies, once you've been around for 10-15yrs then you would know yes, you can "go to the well" to many times. thats not saying that, that dog has lost his gameness.

once you've truly stretched one out, why would you do it again? for your own pride? he or she if preformed satisfactorily should become brood stock.

thats not saying winners shouldnt keep going, you can win without being stretched out. but once one has been 'skull-drug' then gets up and keeps comin, i believe he has proven himself.

now that same dog, if you try to bring him out again, he's liable to quit on you. hell, h.h. said they can quit on the chain after takin a tremendous amount of punishment.

 

i hog hunt all of the time and u cant game test a dog on a hog because the hog doent bite u slam u crunch ur bones the hog also doesnt scratch and come after you ive had greyhound that are better hog dogs than bulldogs are greyhounds game NO. a game test is and should always be the same

 

you let a good match dog do his job they're not usally bred for brood . when you see that they are slowing down and loosing a step then they are retired . there's been to many that have come from behind to win everytime . they're usally the gamer ones . but if they are still looking and feeling good there's no reason to hung it up .

 

old goat: must be a reason for that handle, we're on the same page. sounds to me like you understand the meaning of the game.

nobody should be out there to torture their animal, but on the other hand you should be able to tell what you got.

when TERMITE was retired he went to the stud catagory because of the way he was bred. he probly could have been used as a stud from the get-go. once he was tested for gameness. but did so well, that p. brought him out. he looked good enuf each time, that p. kept bringin him. after the 4th tho, he was over 4yrs old, p. didnt have that big of an ego, he had nothing to prove, so he retired him.

now a dog that is scatterbred, sometimes those are the ones to make good match dogs, but after his career he would be retired, but not to stud.

 

I think instincts, desires, drives, and motives adapt and change over time. I don't think you can say that a dog is either BORN game/Born with ability. If this were the case, pups would be scratching the line from the whelping pen until death. Even the most aggressive adult dogs were able to play around with others as pups. It takes time for a dog to develop both mentally and physically. When talking about dogs "being cold" at one age and "turned on" at a later age, it serves to prove that certain traits are developed, encouraged, or refined over time. That makes it a Learned Behavior, or even a Natural Instinct with Enivironmental Influence. If that is the case, then it stands to reason that other Environmental factors may contribute to the LOSS of certain traits, desires, drives, motives, abilities at any given time. I think this is especially true in a geriatric animal who's mind and body have been put through the ringer for many years. I don't have the answer...just rambling/fishing for discussion.

 

iverson, dont know how many litters you've been around, but i have seen them take hold before they even open theoir eyes. i've seen 8wk old pups scratch, not saying thats what i wanted tho.

as far as being cold then sit on them then they get hot. its not that they were cold, its just that they havent turned on yet.

got to be careful tho , and know how to read your dog. they all mature at different ages.
there's an old saying "EARLY TO START, EARLY TO QUIT", and yes i know there are exceptions to the rule.

 

No a dog cant lose gameness. Once a dog is proven game and you take him out and he blows through his comp in his first two shows then stands the line for 3. You cant say its because he lost gameness in his first 2 show. You can say they all willquit at some point and it wasnt the dogs night.

 

the only " game" dog is a dead game dog everything else is just half honest.

 

I guess you haven't seen to many that won more than 5 . dogs matched in good hands start at 3 and can go 7-8 years old . but you sure need to know what your looking at and doing or your going to ruin a good dog .

 

Yes, I've had young pups who've shown extreme amounts of aggression (for their age) at a young age. But there's a caviat of "for their age". It's not the same. I've been blessed to be around a few GRCH's...never owned one. Although I have owned CH's. I was trying to spark debate, instead of:

"No, a dog who is game will always be game."

"Yes, a dog can be ruined or become ungame."

"No, it can't."

"Yes, it can."

"You're an idiot"

"No, you just don't know what game means."

I have witnessed a GRCH (longest was just over 2 hrs) who had lost pretty much all displayed animal aggression at the ripe old age of 9. It was almost as if he felt that he had accomplished enough, and proven himself already...so "fuck it." Haha. He was rolled again just to see what would happen, and the other dog quickly turned away...so I don't know if he was "still game" or not. I would love to think so. I think that a part of what makes a bulldog what he is, is the personal demand to be the Alpha Dominant one. If a dog loses that desire, for whatever reason, I think that it's possible for a once-deemed-"game" dog to no longer be able to earn that title.

 

Obviously, you can "ruin a good dog" physically speaking. I think the orginal question could be restated as, "Can you ruin a dog, mentally-speaking?" If you say yes, then I think it stands to reason that a dog CAN lose his/her gameness.

OR....one could make the argument that a dog cannot be proven to be game unless they actually reach death, having never given up. Those people would argue that, what you are calling game, wasn't quite taken to that breaking point...and that given another deep hold or another 10 minutes, they would have quit. There is some validity to be found in that argument -- that "game" is a relative term.

 

I agree and learned this lesson the hard way ! Very good post !!!

 

they don't lose game . they get old like we all do . sure they can be friendly when their old but so would you . you would only get it on if someone needed it not because you just want to .

 

loose hihi

 

Warriors can get old, but their instinct will never die, or get down or makes hokus pokus and is away

 

The majority of people today don't breed for bite or for gameness, they breed for $. But a few diehards still maintain the qualities that created the breed. Those are fee and far between.

 

You arent lying gringo. I always get a good chuckle when i read an ad that says "HOT acting pups or gamebred pups for sale, then you look at the ped and aint one dog in 3-4 generations been looked at.

I feel game is lost when one stops breeding for it and decides to breed for some other quality like mouth or $$.

You can get a good one from people who dont test their stock but your chances increase on getting one when the breeder breeds workers to workers.

Ive been reading bob stevens book lately and came across this text:
"The harder the dogs bite the faster they will quit"

Whats everyones thoughts on that? I dont believe it whole heartedly but the mouthy dogs i have seen rarely went the distance and a few stopped when they met a good face dog that managed to stay out of danger.