Why?

I know this has probley been asked before..but what the heck..Ok after reading the "Pics of CH. Charlie" thread i got kinda of bothered...LOL. What Jeep people pick on the Frisco dogs? I am a Jeep person through and through..I have never said a harsh thing about Frisco..Matter of fact my 9 year old house dog is down from frisco..But that doesnt matter..I am just curious to know why people think all Jeep people hate the frisco dogs?? IMO there is no need to bash another line, everyone has an opinion and 9 1/2 times out of 10 they are going to state it...BUt why be harsh about another line of dogs?...A person uses a certain line, because it works for them and thats what counts..I respect all lines of these great dogs...Each line has proved its worth one time or another..I have other lines on my yard besides the jeep dogs some Rascal, Redboy, some Mtn. Man's Homer stuff...Then theres my Jeep stuff (Tab, Abbe, Werdo). I use what has worked for me, and produces good dogs..Ok I am getting a little off subject..LOL All I am saying is we all should have respect for the lines of dogs that have a made a name for themselves, they didnt make a name for themsleves laying on chain..LOL. And on another note..I really could care less if my dogs that are down from Jeep were sired by CH. Charlie instead of Jeep..WHY? Well because which ever one supplied the sperm did a good job..LOL
Bottom line is no one will ever know except the breeder..

 

The Jeep/Frisco thing will be a never ending battle. It all has to do with ROM points.

 

Great point tab

I have never heard any jeep people bash frisco, but I dont really know any jeep peeps either LOL

maybe its like, ford and chevy, most peeps that like chevy bash ford and vise verca

^^^ just a thoght LOL

happy motherday ever one

 

Jeep and Charlie are accomplished game dogs thats why no one can really say anything bad about them while on the other hand Frisco was a cur and didnt accomplish shit for himself except for the fact that he produces some good dogs which I feel is not coming from Frisco genetically but from CH.Chinaman.

 

OK>>>IF FRISCO WAS A CUR WHY WAS HE EVEN BRED IN THE FIRST PLACE ??? i mean in order to preserve gameness as a trait then breeding curs is pointless....nevermind how he has produced now...AFTER THE FACT....why was he bred to begin with if he was a known CUR??? did he win a few then cur out in a few hours......or did he begin as a cur...? i guess i dont know much frisco history....in fact i havent yet read about frisco......does someone have his history??

 

You breed your dogs and I doubt none of them were ever tested..so for all you know you are breeding curs, too

 

i wasnt comparing my dogs i was asking a question regarding history.....i have never made any statements as to my dogs' gameness or lack of it......i dont breed my dogs very often and when i do it is for the purpose of seeing what will work and what wont...i have a much better direction now then when i started due in part to what i have learned on here and in part to finding a mentor.......which apparently doesnt matter to you since you will always find fault with me.....thats ok though.......

 

Tab - I think Gamekid16 made a good comparison with the Chevy/Ford thing.

RLK - while I don't advocate breeding curs, I think Frisco has more than proved his worth as a producer. And I'm willing to bet that the great majority of people would rather have a producer than a performer.

dhcrew - I can't answer your question on Frisco. I don't run Frisco lines and I haven't read anything on him either. I can speculate that there very well could have been other traits that were greatly desired (mouth), so TG took a chance on him, then liked what he saw. Or it could have been money. I don't know, but if you are interested in finding out (I personally don't care), I'm sure you could email TG. As a side note - Rocksteady is not the only one who finds continuous faults with you...

Rocksteady - you go girl! LMFAO!

 

If your not breeding for gameness than what are you talking about ''what will work and what wont'' if your not breeding for gameness then the only thing you are finding out is if a male dog knocks up a female if puppies will be born.....and the answer is yes.

 

A LOT of Jeep people bash Frisco. And if you look at it how many Triple bred sons of Jeep have made champion.
Frisco was not a cur, that is sour grapes from "Chainsaw" one of the previous owners of Frisco.
Frisco people bash Jeep people and visa versa, that is how it is.

 

--- Articles from the SDJ around 1997 ---

Dear Journal,
It seems that everyone is knocking Frisco lately..Why?? So chainsaw writes a story about what a poor dog Frisco is-what difference does it make??Nobody ever claimed Frisco is,or ever has been a ace match dog..What he is,is a producer of hardmouth match dogs..Alot of people claim that all he throws are curs,but I know different!!! I have matched more than a couple of dogs sired by Frisco and seen alot more than that.My opinion is that...when you get a good Frisco dog you got a first class dog all the way..Mouth,ability,natural air,even gameness..Put a Frisco dog in condition,and he can run with anyone-miss his keep however,and he'll probably shoot his wad and end up losing..So what?? No line of dogs is invincible..As for his record of producing,you cant say it was made in Taiwan..I campaigned a little bitch off Frisco into the best I could find and made her a champuion..I tried to match her into at least 6 champions for matches 3 and 4 and everyone told me that their bitch was retired..Now everyone might think that Im a big Frisco fan..Im not..My own taste runs more to the Buster blood,but Im not stupid or Knl blind..I'll run what I think can win..Its that simple,and you can win with a Frisco dog in goos condition..
Milk INC.



Dear Journal,
This letter is in responce to chainsaws comments on Frisco..I lived in the Portland area when Frisco was rolled and he never stopped..He would go across and not take hold,so we put him on the chain and decided to try him at another time..In Nevada he was rolled into Lever Red a hard mouthed dog,but Frisco was biting awfully hard and we decided to pick Lever Red up and start a IV on him..But Frisco never quit..We decided to send him to Mr Garner to use as a stud dog because Frisco's brother Chinatom had died..
Shaman



Dear Journal,
In reply to chainsaw and southpaw knls,your both trying to put Frisco down for making ROM..Everyone knows that Jeep's sire quit,as did Bullyson..Last but not least a son & daughter of Frisco both won in over 2hrs..Frisco's record is 81 wins,19 losses,10 of them were picked up game,and ONLY 9 quit...
G.Braswell


Dogmen,
I met Mike Williams a long time ago and helped him get into the dogs and brought him places with me introduced him to people and even helped him start his dogfood business..All of which he ruined..Chinagirl did quit on top in her old age with no teeth,which is no excuse which really suprised me as she took a big beating at Steve H's house earlier in life and showed very game..About Frisco,we rolled him first in Oregon with K.Fee,R.Terry,was there and Terrys dog was in deep trouble in 15min and Frisco almost killed him..2 mo later in Oregon we rolled him again and Gene P and Alex from Canada ws there..Frisco hit the shoulder and in 7min they had to bury there dog..About 1mo later we bumped him again..Like always he hit the shoulder then he went to the dick and flopped down like he was unconscious even though he always scratched hard..He showed no signs of quitting and he acted funny like this for the next couple of rolls..From my expierience and from talking to oldtimers I beleive he was rubbed the 1st time and he remembered it later..
I wanted to see for sure if this was a rub,or if he was not a honest dog,so after another 6mo in which time his brother Chinatom became a 2xw by beating a 5xw we tried to run Frisco off and used a big dog names Lever Red who was at least 12lbs bigger and rough with a very hard mouth and strong that had pulled the shoulders out of xx's dog in 12min..This was maybe the best roll I ever saw..They hit stifle to stifle doing terrible damage and Greg T,Shaman,Mike W and me were there..Greg said to me at 20min that we better pick up the big dog..I said let it go,but shaman who worked on dogs medicaly as a ace said if we did not do it now it would be to late as Lever reds eyes were rolling up in his head and he was going into shock..We had to put a IV in to save Lever Red..Frisco scratched hard and true through out this roll and showed only game signs..It was clear that he was rubbed before and that he was a real bulldog..
My good friendship with Garner is such that I send him dogs if they might help his breeding program..When I sent Frisco to to TG MW was very mad at me as he wanted the dog and claimed the dog was his..I gave mike $200 cash to send him to TG..MW bred to Frisco before he sent him..I did not let him keep the dog..Dogs at his house lived in there own shit,and had sores and if he would steal another mans dog then Frisco might end up missing..How do I know so much about Him?? I lived down the street from him and everyday I saw how he kept his dogs,and made his dogfood..One day I stopped by his house and saw a dog I knew from another yard..I asked him about it and he told me how he stole it and changed the papers on it..He bred this dog to WhiteHead which produced a dog named Rex that sold for big bucks..Whoever owns Rex can contact me and I will tell you the true breeding on your dog..
Whenevr someone finds out their dogs are stolen anything can happen..I started to understand that MW would lie,cheat and do anything and whoever came looking for him,my wife and child might be at his house if shooting started..I saw how mike screwed so many people so many times and knew it was just a matter of time..In Oregon Mike screwed some guys and the Tinman wanted to punch his ticket...I talked to the Tinman and like so many times before I covered for him because he was my friend and I was loyal to him..Mikes main problem is that he is lazy and tries to cut corners in everything he does but wants respect..But if you know him you dont respect him..He is very jealous of other people having sucsess in anything but he screws up everything..
I called MW and asked him about the artical he wrote..He said he knew Frisco didnt quit and said he said those things to get back at TG and me because we told how he makes his dogfood...This was about the rumor that he pisses in the mixer he makes his food in..I lived down the street and saw exactly how he made his food like not putting the cover on,and finding mice and mice shit,and bats in the barn..But i never saw him piss in it.. He begged me since I was godfather to his child that if i told the truth about him I would be hurting his family..I like his wife and family alot as they are good people but he's pulled so much shit for so long that he deserves whatever happens to him..MW will steal,cheat,and lie to screw anyone and will do it to those that love him like a brother..Luike the time he called N of Utah Cole Knls and said that my wife was very sick and he needed to borrow the $1000 to pay me back the money he owed me..But MW like always took the money from this trusting lady and never paid her back and never gave any to me..Thats MW for ya..Using lies and pitty to steal from people who trust him..Today he has German sheperds..He was a loser at gamedogs even with all the breaks that he got,and when the GS people find out how he makes his food and keeps his dogs they'll learn about him..Watch how over time he blows it like he did with the gamedogs..I swear everything Ive said is true and tghere is alot more about MW than that...
Vinnie R.

Thought these might settle a bit of the issues people have or atleast give a few different perspectives.

Regards,

B

 

Heres a fictional (wink) story of Frisco and for entertainment purposes only. Frisco was a very talented and deadly dog that could finish you in very short order close to an ace dog the only problem with Frisco is he wouldnt scratch but if you put a dog in front of him good night, thats why TM never matched Frisco cause he wouldnt scratch or else TM could of easially made him a Grand Champion with Friscos talent. Also thats why you see alot of Frisco dogs winning cause Frisco throws high ability in his offsprings to make him ROM. But the down side to it is Frisco also throws his cur into his offsprings alot of them cant take what they dish out and quit if they fall behind. Dont get me wrong Im not saying that all Frisco dogs are curs cause like any line they have there good ones too , but percentage wise majority of frisco dogs quit when the heat gets too hot.

 

How many dogs off him did you own or watch go? I would like to know how many you fed on your yard and watched quit. If you have I would value your opinion a lot more otherwise it just sounds like the same crap that circulates around on the internet boards. People spreading what others spew, not what they have witnessed on their own. I'm just curious if you really have the history with this line to back your claims. (I'm not angry, pissed, or otherwise, just curious to hear how many you personally owned) We all know lies and BS about all sorts of lines. I suppose the only thing that matters is staying true to yourself and the dogs. Don't make excuses and cull your stock accordingly. I'll be interested to hear what you have to say in reply. I just want to hear some FACTS to backup your claims. Feel free to PM or email with your reply if you don't want to make it public knowledge.

With Respect,

B