Has anyone ever . . . .

felt like they were getting jipped at shows and if so what did you do?

At a recent ADBA show I had a male in the Best in Show category. He was looked very hard by the judge. He was walked out 3 times. And he was looked over 4 times.

Someone standing nearby, who has a long history with the club and the ADBA, was making rude comments under their breath (which i heard and i am sure the judge heard as well). Then the judge pulled out that person's dog and looked at it again and looked at a dog near my dog again as well.

In the end the judge awarded BIS to a female which she had hardly looked at and Best of Opposite to the last dog she decided to look at, who had been laying down in the ring most of the time.

When the judge signed my 1st place ribbon they commented that my male had "not been interested" enough in the judge. He had made a funny face when first looked at because the judge was wearing reflective sunglasses but when removed he was fine. . .he was however black and it was very very hot out. He was not as spunky as usual. . .but it seems to me that if the judge looked that many times maybe my male deserved the BIS?

Also, several people after the show mentioned that he was the best dog in there and that they think politics screwed him out of it.

In this case, what if anything can/should be done? Should I just keep bringing him and hope that one day a judge doesnt care that some veteran show person bitches about it?

I do not want to give names or details as to time or place. . just trying to get some perspective from others who may have advice for me. Where I live I am not likely to attend a show where this particular person will not be there. So, if this happens again, I want to know what others would do to help me gauge my reaction.

 

I've felt like I've been robbed in the ring a few times. I keep a list of the judges who did the robbing and don't show under them again, and if others were to ask about those judges I'd share my experiences. If the judge screwed up really bad, say by telling us that one of our dog's faults was a DQ, I'd bring it to the club's attention and most likely that judge wouldn't be asked back. (When that actually did happen, a club member overheard the judge's remarks and that was it for them, at least with that club.)

Overall, though, even when I know I've got the nicer dog and lose to one that isn't as nice, I don't sweat it. You're paying for the judge's opinion. Sucks bad when you lose to an "inferior" dog, but that's what happens with something as subjective as dog showing. No reason to quit doing it, though. This breed aint quitters, and we should emulate that.

 

Thanks for the opinion. . .

in this case it wasnt losing that made me mad, it was knowing i probably would have won if not for the rude comments of the other participant who happens to have a high standing in the area.

 

Thats why I think dog shows are BS. its just some ones opinion on how good your dog looks or how close it fits to breed standard and ask another person and there opinion maybe totally different. Weight pulling imo is better than showing because end of the day the dogs pull what they pull

 

That is an advantage of weight pull. We do both, so I know what you mean it's a definitive win or lose situation whereas with conformation it isn't.

but not all dogs pull or enjoy pulling and some are very well suited to conformation.

 

i have lost to dogs that were kinda puzzling ( lost to a dog w/ a gay tail one show, yet got 2nd in the previous outing) but at the end of the day, the dogs ribbon/trophy means nothing to me. the reason i show my dogs is because its fun, and gets them out for the day. i look at it as cheap entertainment.
weight pull i sthe same way. i have one up and comer im working with. at home he will pull like a madman...time for show he will pull a little then Sit, Down, and Stay. ( thanks to intense CGC training) do i get bent out of shape? nope , i laugh it off and say "we gotta work a little harder"
long story short- its just a dog show, enjoy it for what it is

 

I think dog shows are fun and I enjoy the social aspect of them. BUT....... they sure don't "prove" a dogs worth, particuarly in ADBA where they don't really stack or gait the dogs.

And I've seen judges who picked dogs that I thought had awful conformation. Thats just the breaks.

 

Everyone stated it correctly. It's an opinion and these shows are meant to be fun. These dogs weren't intended to be prancing around in a beauty contest anyway. Who cares! It's really more for the people than the dogs! Just enjoy the time, if you win something than it's a bonus!

 

I personally HATE conformation shows. Just straight hate them. That said, i have travelled 6 hours to a conformation show. Why? Because I feel it is a duty to show my dogs to the public. I know little to nothing about showing dogs but still go through the steps anyway. In fact, I may be showing my dogs in the worst possible way. Who knows??? All I can do is condition the dogs and hope for the best. I watch what others do in the ring and try to do the same. I do not know if this is wrong to do....please advise if so......I noticed people lifting the back side of their dogs to "stretch" them out. Is this wrong? Or is it wrong only if the judge sees it? I hope you understand what I mean by "stretch".....so that they get the hind leg looking like it has a cramp. lol

Placing can be as easy as knowing or befriending the judge, being a member of the club that brought him/her, or bringing a "famous" dog.

Marty, did Machobuck place when you showed him? Although Machobuck was a good dog, pictures show him not in conditioned form. I would not have been surprised if status alone made him place.

I will not lie, I am there to win. I HATE loosing. I am spending a few hundred bucks just for the entertainment factor....shoot, i live in New York....Entertainment is everywhere here. I can have a chicken leg in one hand and a "breast" in the other... :o....what's more entertaining than that? lol

Good luck to all that will participate and attend the Nationals. I will be there with two dogs (black and a red). Feel free to come by say hello and pet my dogs. They like the attention of people....they must have worms because they are starved for attention.

 

No he didn't place, he was fat

 

Maaaaan, you should have said yes, i was trying to make a point.:p:cool:

 

I would love to say politics are not involved in dog shows. However, we all know that this is not the situation. Politics are a part of anything competitive with something to gain. I try not to worry about it, i try to focus my energy on properly conditioning the dog, and working on presenting the dog in the ring. I have seen some great dogs, that were not presented to well IMO. At the end of the day, there are always more losers than winners....that will never change. Like Pennsonner stated....just have a good time & meet some new people/dogs.

 

Good luck at the show Rocky. Take some pics of those guys and share please.

 

I noticed at the show in NC recently that the judge never once touched the dogs to check out the structure, he just looked. Do all the judges in this sanction do that or just some.

 

The trend seems to be hands off judging. I have not seen many make any contact with a dog in the ring.

 

Every judge has his 'preferences'......at some shows we can almost guess who in the ring a judge is gonna choose because they all have their own flavor. It is all opinion.

Although, I've seen some REALLY odd decisions. Particularly at the last UKC show I went to. A straight stifled dog with a short ass tail placed first in it's class. I was like, wow.

Then you have the judges that instead of judging the dog against the standard, they judge dog against dog. The dogs are supposed to be evaluated and judged off of the breed standard.

 

Rocky, what you were asking about lifting the dog's rear to stretch their back legs out, do you mean while stacking the dog? Because it sounds like what I do with my dogs. Lifting them from under their crotch sounds bad, but I find it easier than hand-placing each rear leg. My dogs fidget less when I do it by lifting their butts. It's just a way to get them in the right position relatively quickly. I believe the term is called a "drop stack," basically where you lift the dog up, and when you put them back down their feet are placed correctly. It's not something that every dog or every handler will do well. For example, I can drop stack Terra's rear, but I have to place her front feet individually because she tends to lean back. (She doesn't have the best feet.)

 

Thanks everyone for your opinions and experiences. I appreciate it. . .

I'd say its comforting to know so many people feel that the dog show world is biased,but really it's just disturbing. lol.

 

While I agree with all of you on the politics theory, I have to say it IS an opinion based sport. What is extremely important to one judge, may just be the "icing" to another. Each judge also has their preference of type in a dog as well.


I have never been to a ADBA show, from what I have seen in pictures and from what people described, it doesn't seem to get to the point of actually showing in conformation. The purpose of doing so, is to judge breeding stock and see what another fellow dog person thinks about certain aspects of your dog (Conformation, temperment, and condition). Correct me if I'm wrong here but, I heard the judge does not lay a hand on any dog. Doesn't that defeat the purpose? What SEEMS to be underneath the skin and insane amounts of muscle doesn't mean it actually is. You can target certain areas to make a dog appear better in conformation then it would be un-conditioned. I would think that to award properly, you need to feel the animal. Also from pictures I see dogs farting around... (laying down, sitting, lunging, jumping, ect. ect.). I understand when you are not being looked at and you are free to relax you do so but, when a judge is looking down the line, wouldn't you want to present your dog the best way possible? Stack square to the judge and move out of the way so he can actually see what you are presenting him? This can also be the reason for ood placings. But, at least people have fun!

Remember I have never been to one of these shows I am just assumming based off what I heard. So correct me if I'm wrong on any of this, I won't throw a hissy fit. I promise. :p

 

^^^Pretty much right on from what I saw. Guess that's why they call it a fun show..