Are they Curs?

I've talked to several dogmen in the past and it's still bothering me till today. The question I have asked, was Defensive dogs considered curs? The answers I've gotten where yes and no. But I truely feel that it's in the eye of the beholder.

If two dogs were in the ring and one was to scratch into the other and it didn't but when the other dog was released to scratch (into the dog that didn't scratch) and if that dog scratches back. I would considered that dog to be a defensive dog but not a cur. But a few of the dogmen that I've spoken/emailed to said that it was always considered a cur but it has only happen a few times. But they have seen people keep these dogs because their were Defensive fighters.

What are you thoughts?

 

i would lean towards cur because if that dog is going at in the box but when it comes time to scratch and it holds the line i would think that dog doesn't have the urge to fight therefore making it a cur. To me a defensive fighter is nothing more than another term describing a cur, we consider most all other dog breeds curs because they don't have the strong desire to fight like bulldogs do, yea some will scrap for days but will more than likely hold the line when the heat gets kicked up.

 

They are currs.... CUT AND DRY a game dog will crawl across. Dont make up little excusses for the dogs if they didnt come they had to go. thats what makes our dogs so honest is the years of culling that went in to makeing them. YIS J

 

The dog that does not scratch when physically able to do so is a cur. Most any dog will react to having teeth on them.

So to answer the question, yes they are curs.

 

how can you say they are curs. i no scratching is important but i think people put to much emphasis if a dog will scratch or not but will fight if scratched upun it is not like they gave up they still continue to fight in my opinion a cur is a dog that will jump the wall if the dog stays in the pit and is willing to still fight but will not scratch well mayb he is not as game as the dog that scratched but he is still game if he continues to fight. a real cur is one who jumps the wall because he is a fukin pussy a dog who will always scratch i would consider them more fight crazy. i do not care if a dog will start the fight ie the agressor i care more for the dog who will finish the fight no matter wat mayb he wont scratch but he will fight as long as the other dog keeps coming

just because a dog tries to eat everything that walks by him does not make him game. to dogs that are fight crazy are like usually like people with big mouths they are usually all bark and no bite. you can bet your ass that i wont start a fight but i sure as hell am gonna finish it if you put your hands on me does that make me a cur.

 

i think u might be a bit confused, there aren't different levels of gameness, the dog can't be a little game, the dog is either game or not. He doesn't have to jump the wall to be a cur, standing the line is just as good as jumping. The defensive dog isn't going to finish the fight because once the turn is called and the scratching must begin he will stand and it will be over

 

IMO they are curs cause if they dont scratch but react then 9 out of 10 times the dog who does not scratch will give in and start singing like the oprah. Because they never really wanted to any ways. Now if you have one who does not make the 1st scratch but reacts and after that scratches then its a diffrent story.

 

I dont think defense = curs. Its just a style that dogs use to stay out of trouble. Never heard of a dog being defensive?

 

a defensive style dog that is still willing to scratch is way different than a defensive dog that stands the line

 

Gameness: The driving force in a apbt that makes it cary on at all costs. It what seperates are breed from all the rest. The will to dominate if you will. Not the act of winning but the will to not stop until its finished. Standing the line doesnt qualify that particular dog defensive it however does qualify that dog a cur. Defense doesnt come into play until that dog is engaged in battle. You cant defend against a attack that isnt happening you can however stand the line and not go back into the battle (choosing to quit) which labels that dog a cur. JMHO

 

I totally agree boiboi

 

Man that aint defense that is a fight for my life dog...he is biting the crap out of me somebody get him off CUR

 

A dog that won't scratch isn't like a person that dosn't start fights but will fight to the death if you jump on him. A dog that won't scratch is like a fighter that quits on his stool in a boxing match, thus he is a quiter, a CUR! Any animal will fight when you back him into a corner. I agree that not all game dogs are flashy agressive or fight crazy, but they will scratch after being scratched upon otherwise they are a cur. you have to remember how scratch and turn works. In order to be forced to scratch, the dog must first "turn" or make a move in such a way that it looks like he no longer wants to fight, in otherwords, a less dramatic form of running away. That dog is then forced to scratch in order to prove or disprove whether or not he was trying to quit. Thus, a dog that will not scratch once scratched upon is without a doubt a quiter, because he tried to quit while the fight was on him and then had that verified by standing the line. Cur Cur Cur, end of story.

 

so wat if a dog is getting wooped and makes a turn and then will not scratch but wen scratched continues to give it his all is he a cur in my opinion no also even a great dogman like frank rocca believes there different levels of gameness. i am not saying that wat he says is gospel but i do believe the man earned his respect and has some knoledge wen it comes to bulldogs

 

the only reason that cur continues to fight is because he is being attacked, whats he gonna do just stand there and let the other dog chew on him. And i was wrong there are 2 levels of gameness, dogs that are game and dogs that are dead game

 

"start singing like the oprah" ?? is that like the fat lady??? LOL.

i've seen a dog or two that would defend and fight for themselves but would not scratch. one was a real rough dog and could be breaking his oppenent down. but upon release he would not go across..and it's not like he was scared or cur, he never turned or broke eye contact with the other dog, he just wanted to defensively fight..

regardless,he is no longer with us.

 

100% curdog

 

Great thoughts guys! Sometimes I just find it hard to call them curs compared to dogs that stop/jump out like others have mention. Again, to me it's in the eye of the beholder. That's why gameness is....all in what the handler see's! One man's dog can be game to him but another man's opinion would be cur.

 

i understand what you are saying but it is not like the dog can not jump the wall if he really did not want to fight then he could run, but i noo wat you mean because most animals will fight if they are being attacked u made some real good points

 

A defensive dog, is one who uses defense strategies to wear the other down, and avoid injury until he/she puts his own attack into action. Defensive dogs are not curs, they're smart!

A dog that won't come across, until challenged, is fighting out of preservation instincts, not gameness. If the dog won't come across the line and initate the fight on his/her own, it's curred out.

This is why seasoned dogmen know when it's time to release on the other dogs command and meet halfway, or hold theirs in the corner later in the show. Even further, many dogs will come across, and not mouth. This is not a completed scratch, and the dog has stopped.

If you were unsure if a dog was coming, or if he will mouth when he gets there, many times you would try to restrain your dog from showing any aggression or making contact. Any dog will fight to defend himself, a gamedog will fight... just for the fight. If the show has started, and the dog won't fight until scratched into or bit, it's already stopped.

Sometimes they will win by handler mistakes, but they are still "losers" in the grand scheme.