If you had a Grand Champion

If you had a GR CH that was around 3-5 years old would you still campaign him to win more matches or would you retire him for stud. And what do you think about people that Campaign there Gr Ch's?

This thread is a question for people that would be dogmen before 1976 not now in modern time.

 

I think it would depend on how tuff and how much did the matches tire the dog out , but I think I would probably retire the old man or m'am . I would campaign the dog for another match if I tough he could be up to it , and if he needed to prove to me that he is really a true bulldog . But all in all , I do think I would retire a Gr.Champ' .

Probably the people who campaign the dog to this because the dog can still go and go hard , the dog is not damaged from the previous fight (e.g. missing teeth , a fracture that has healed well but could be an inconveniant in a longer match ), or maybe the dog needs to prove that he is really game , and not just a destroyer .

Just my 2 cents .

 

No, the dog has earned his retirement and should live like a King!

 

If a dog has proven himself to me. He could be retierd w/o ever setting foot in the box. A dog that has never seen the box could have showed you more than a dog on youre yard with a few under him. If the dog has earned his Gr. Champion title. How manny more do you need to see????????? Retire the dog to a life of lux.

 

We placed the title "Grand Champion" at 5 fights. This means nothing to the dog, whether it's 5 or 10 they will fight just the same.

Animals were campaigned to PROVE they were many things. If the dog has won 5, he should of showed something, but maybe not enough. If he is healthy, eager, and physically/mentally sound prove he's better than the next one!

Titles are just classifications us (the humans) strive for. This game isn't about us, and Ch or Gr Ch's. It's about the dogs, don't get caught up in the glitter surrounding the game.

 

I like what you have to say 14rock!

 

Depends on a lot of factors really..If that paticular dog flew past the other 5 with ease and that competition was not really the best around I'd keep him open. But then again if he had already won 2-3 hard well fought out matches against well known good competition I see no point in making him go for the 5.

 

that realy was some deep shit right there and i felt it deserved more recognition than just clicking thanks

 

What not to do

Milkmans Ch Stallone

http://www.apbt.online-pedigrees.com/public/printPedigree.php?dog_id=178196

<hr style="color: rgb(209, 209, 225); background-color: rgb(209, 209, 225);" size="1"> <!-- / icon and title --><!-- message --> Milkman owned him, sold him as a stud dog and told his new owners (X Men) not to show him because he had a ton of time, ruff shows, age and had nothing more to prove, they didnt listen, he was shown and quit. He was considered an Ace before his last show but X Men wanted him to go for his Gr Ch

Milkman should be given credit for knowing his dogs and what they have left.

These dogs are not machines and you can make them quit, its done all the time

Stallone lived out the rest of his life with Milkman

 

i like this answer...because those are the major factor you have to consider.

1. the mental factor...how much damage did it recieve last match?,how long was it?how did the dog act under stress? (in other words, was he "THERE" mentally? and was his heart in it? did he show any bad signs? how much damage did he suffer?) your gonna be asking the dog to do it again and he will remember it during the battle...dogs are smart.

2. the physical factor... how was he after the last contest? how long did he take to recover, both mentally and physically? some damage you'll never see, and some you will. he knows it's there. he feels it in his body or maybe in his soul... CAN he handle another,physically speaking? and WILL he handle another battle without mentally breaking down?

3.your judgment as his keeper...how does he handle his pre-keep and keep? does he show any signs of irrepairable wear and tear? is he excited or hesitant? how does this one compare to previous keeps? your asking an old vet to go to war again...and war is hell. did he leave his best on the battleground already? does he have more to give you? because your ego may kill him if your wrong...

your about to to take the chance on having your dog become a legend or be the dog who's owner got greedy and let him down....

so, it's all about "does he want it?" "can he handle it?" "am i making the right decision for him?"

 

Good post blackshine.

MT, as soon as I typed that I knew Stallone would come into this discussion. A few hours later...

He was just one great dog, "took to the well too many times", but everyone knows this example so we will use it. Milkman KNEW the dog, he knew his tank was past "E" and he didn't have many more miles. His new owners didn't, and were not able to logically make that decision. They gambled, and this time it not only fucked them, but a great dog.

Theres alot of "dogmen" who do stupid shit, and get away with it. Their logic is "if they are good, they will overcome". Getting lucky once or twice, doesn't mean it's ever right.

Had Stallone won, he would of received a man-made title. Do you hear the internet doggers applause?

 

So true if Stallone had already put time in on good hogs why not let it be. He had proven his worth and should of lived the rest of his day on a chain getting bitches backed up to him.

 

Boom, there it is. Gotta think of the athlete first. Its his/her job to get busy. Trainers job to do the thinking.

Stallone's last one, don't know what Id say on that one. The dog's already considered an Ace dog (go anywhere, acts right, always trys for the k or w), GRCh should be the next step.
Ive heard of that happening a couple times, someone gets a CH from someone, and the dog quits in 15 w/ the new owner. I guess the breeder knew his stock, but I couldn't blame the new owners for taking him out. After all, "he's an Ace". But, glad to see he went back home.

 

Honestly, a GRCh by 3 years is a very rare thing. By 5 years is more believable. This question does not have 1 simple answer. It all depends on the individual dog.

 

Hello there are diferent caliber of dogs even with a title. Champions and a coiple Gr Ch that veryly made it to the title, or did take counts to make the title. I know of at lease 5 Gr Ch the most people will not know the "DETAILS" and those Gr Ch I would not consider them in my program, even if I like their bloodline. A dog making Gr Ch At 3 years old woud have to be a freak in every way posible. Look at the defenition of success in my signature. keep in mind the "THE EVIL IS IN THE DETAIL"

"TO BE SOMEBODY IN 1974 YOU HAD TO BEAT SOMEBODY"

"ONE IS AS GOOD AS THE COMPETITION YOU BEAT"

If Michael Jordan or Tiger woods, would have beat the Hill Billy Toms and the John Does, they would have been NOBODY"

I seen more marketieres and peddlers used that term of Gr Ch or Ch at this age to kind of show some level of greatness. In fact real dogmen would not even start doing anything till about that age.

So the entaire thing is attached to HYPE, Marketing, and $$$.

my opinion.
Openhouse

 

How about Haunch?

Someone else can give their thoughts on that one, its just a message board and we're all bullsniffing so we can give our opinions and thats all they are

Chico, what do you think about Haunch being shown his last at that age?

 

I personally knew Haunch's owners (I bred my gyp to him when he was only 15 months old...we knew he was going to be something even back then). The son I got from him died last Dec.

I never spoke w/ him to ask why in the hell he was campaigned when he was so old but I certainly think it was a HUGE mistake.

 

I Knew Haunch Much More Than anyone but, his last owner. HIS LAST OWNER IS THE ONE THAT ONE THAT WAS A DOGMAN. THE ONE WHO HAD HIM WHEN HE WAS 15 MONTHS OLD, WAS JUST A YOUNG MAN BANK TELLER ,,WHO ONCE HE KNEW THAT HE DAD TOO MUCH DOG, HE HAD TO GIVE HIM UP TO A REAL DOGMAN. HAUNCH Was A Solid Game Dog, VERY NICEEE, Not An Ace As Some People Think, A POOR PRODUCER IF YOU ASK ME. BUT A REAL SONE OF MAYDAY. I SEEN HIM BE BREED AT LEASE 20 TIMES.

I Do Respect The Man That Had Him. Not The Petbull Owner Who Had Him First But Bak. NOW AS FAR AS WHAT HAPPEN, I KEEP MY OPINON ON THAT, I DO NOT PASS JUDMENT ON GREAT PEOPLE. HIS OWNER ONE OF THE BEST I HAVE EVER SEEN. WHEN IT COMES TO APBT I TAKE A DIFERENT FLAVOR TO OPIONS. I THINK A FAT GUY , MIGHT BE OK TO PASS AN OPION ON A LOSING TEAM IN A BASKETBALL CHAMPIONSHIP, I DO NOT THINK THAT A PETBULL, DOG FANCIER, DOG LOOKER, CYBER NET DOGGER, FORUM RIDER ETC, ETC, HAS THE RIGHT TO EVEN GIVE AN OPION ON THE APBT HISTORY, AS TO HOW THINGS SHOULD BE DONE, OR WOULD HAVE TO BE DONE., AS FAR AS WHAT WAS RIGHT OR WRONG. I BEALIVE PEOPLE IN THE BENTCH OF THE APBT HISTORY SHOULD JUST LOOK AND SEE. HOW CAN SOMEONE THAT DO NOT HAVE "DEEP KNOWLAGE" PASS JUDGMENT ON A HISTORY THAT THEY CAN NOT BE PART OF?

HISTORY ALWAYS SAID THERE ARE PLAYER AND LOOKERS, LOOKERS ALWAYS HAVE A BETTER WAY IN WORDS ON HOW TO DO THE GAME, BUT THEY NEVER STEP TO PLAY.

I THINK THEY SHOULD JUST TAKE WHAT IS GIVEN AND SAY THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

I Could Had Breed To Him, But I Decited To Go A Diferent Road.

I Liked His Body Confirmantion, But Did Not Like The Fact Of Being A Man Biter.



Chico

 

Chico,

Are you talking about J@#$, or G@#% If you are saying that G@#$ was not a real dogman I must respectfully say that you are very wrong and are in no way in a position to judge him.

I usually do not mention names but G@#$ was a walking encyclopedia of dog knowledge. He produced some fine dogs (like Crash) and spared no expense to preserved some of the purest Hollingsworth blood (Bull...frozen semen) .

 

I Wanted To Respect Their Names, and it was clear in my post I said a banker who if you knew more, was J*&^. G^%$ Was A Good Breeder, I Am Thankfull To His Breedings. I did helped him do a breeding that made some great dogs for me. he did breed Cheyenne ROM a great dog.

I think I am in a good position to make a few comments about the dogs I "SEEN" in my days. I am more than a fancier or a looker at a distance. Usually my opion is base on knowlage and from a knowlagble position.

About G&^%, much respect,,He Did Know A Lot About Breeding Dogs.

John Was Just A Hand To Have The Dog. Bak Was Everything After That.
I do not have a degree in English or anything else if you excuse me, but dogmanship, APBT being my personal field, I do have good notes.

GR CH HAUNCH WAS ONE OF THE BEST GR CH AND REAL, THE OPOSITE TO WHAT THE ORIGINAL QUESTION WAS.
Thanks
Nothing Else To Say About It.
Chico