Rice in dog food

I've heard it time and time again that corn in dog food is nothing more than a filler and has no nutritional value to a dog, however most popular high quality dog foods like Canidae and Diamond include rice of some sort in the ingredients, now my question is why is rice acceptable but corn is not?

 

not sure. maybe corn is just much more of a "filler" then rice.

I think the problem lies in how much corn and rice ratio compared to the good stuff. It should never be the first ingredient.

 

yea i got that, however most of the time the corn is like the second to third ingredient which IMO is just as bad, however rice is often anywhere from the second to the fourth ingredient

 

just got some more info....

rice does have "some nutrient" and it also aids in digestion of food. Its easy on the stomche.
corn is pointless.

 

Dont know bro But what i can tell you is that rice and beans and pork chops with corn man thats good well for me jajaja.

 

lol yea man, thats what im talkin bout lol

anyway if anyone has more insight let me know just curious about the nutritional difference in rice compared to corn for dogs

 

If you ask me, neither of them belong in dog foods. They are both fillers, one may be better than the other but they are both fillers.

 

I agree....never researched it, but to me...grain is grain, and rice is grain, even though it is better than corn not only for humans but dogs as well....Dogs eat meat....unlike cows/chickens ect...they eat the grains...
I would think along lines, that grain would be a filler...regardless what it was in. Most dog foods with rice in them are also (usually) for bigger dogs...or so I have seen.....and when thats not the case the dog is usually over-weight....
I dont kn ow...would be curious to know myself!

 

I am curious about this as well.

This is from the Canidae website....
All of our products are made the “CANIDAE Way” with superior quality in every bag and can with NO corn, wheat, soy, grain fractions or fillers – and naturally preserved!


All Natural Ingredients
Chicken Meal, Turkey Meal, Brown Rice, White Rice, Lamb Meal, Chicken Fat (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Herring Meal, Flax Seed, Sun Cured Alfalfa Meal, Sunflower Oil, Chicken, Lecithin, Monocalcium Phosphate, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Linoleic Acid, Rosemary Extract, Sage Extract, Dried Enterococcus Faecium, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus Oryzae Fermentation Extract, Dried Bacillus Subtilis Fermentation Extract, Inulin (from Chicory root), Saccharomyces Cerevisiae Fermentation Solubles, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Mixed Tocopherols (source of Vitamin E), Zinc Amino Acid Chelate, Manganese Amino Acid Chelate, Iron Amino Acid Chelate, Copper Amino Acid Chelate, Cobalt Amino Acid Chelate, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Ascorbic Acid (source of Vitamin C), Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B1), Riboflavin (source of B2), Beta Carotene, Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Calcium Iodate, Folic Acid, D-Biotin, Sodium Selenite, Papaya, Vitamin B12 Supplement.

 

good catch, the more i think about it the more that goes through my head. Now that i think about it grains provide carbohydrates that give energy boosts so therefore i see how some grains would be good in a dog food

 

Canidae claims no grain fractions, they use whole brown and white rice and therefore the dog absorbs the nutrients from the whole grain rather than from rice bran, brewers rice etc etc... Which is much healthier than feeding a diet that consists mostly of rice gluten, corn meal and wheat middlings. BUT, I still see rice as a filler. Yes the carbs provide energy, but so does a high protein (from meat proteins) food. I honestly beleive dogs do not need grains and therefore I feed a low carb, high protein, grain free kibble when I feed kibble.
Rice does have more nutrients than corn, but it is still a grain and therefore still not overly digestable to dogs and definately not needed in the amount that it appears in most commercial dog foods.

 

The dogs main source if all three are combined are carbs because they are easier to digest than protein and fats. All three combined you have an epidemic of over weight dogs like you see in this country today!!!!!

 

Carbohydrates do provide quick and easy energy. However, it is not 'carbs' that maintain the health of the organs listed in the quotes above, but glucose. Glucose can be obtained from protein through a process known as gluconeogenesis, where amino acids (not fatty acids; those use a different cycle) are "converted" to glucose. Fat can also be used for energy; fats are broken down into Acetyl CoA and are fed directly into the Citric Acid Cycle, bypassing the process of glycolysis (the first stage of carbohydrate metabolism). Thus, glucose and energy can be obtained from other sources. However, if carbs are present they will be converted to energy first before protein and fats because they are easier to use. This is the reason that carbs regulate how much starch and fat will be broken down and utilized. If there is a plethora of carbohydrates, fat will be stored instead of used. If there are not enough carbs to fulfill energy needs, then fat will be converted to Acetyl CoA and used. If no carbs are present, then fat and protein are used to fill energy needs.

Excess carbohydrates are stored in the liver and the muscles as glycogen AND in the body as fat. However, since carboydrates are not the only source of glycogen (which also comes from proteins and fats through a process known as glyconeogenesis), they are not absolutely necessary. Human athletes commonly perform 'carbo loading' techniques where they eat huge carby meals of things like pasta to rapidly replenish their glycogen stores in their muscles and liver before a competition. The carbohydrates, when in excess, are more rapidly converted and stored as glycogen compared to fat and protein. HOWEVER, once again, fat and protein can also be stored as glycogen, which makes carbohydrates unnecessary unless you want to perform 'carbo loading'. I believe it is Purina that has capitalized on this and now has "energy bars" of complex carbohydrates for the canine athlete to help them recover more quickly between events. But, carbohydrates do not rebuild spent muscle tissue, etc. Protein does that. Fat is also easily utilized for quick energy, too, and provides more energy per gram that carbohydrate does (9 kcals/gram of fat compared to 4 kcals/gram of carbohydrate).

It is not low carbohydrate intake that causes things like cardiac symptoms and angina; it is low blood glucose. If there is not enough glucose in the blood system, then you run into many problems including black outs, cardiac symptoms (like arrhythmia), and angina (chest pain). Of course, it is interesting that wolves can go without food for weeks and still survive well enough. How do they do that without eating carbs? Simple—they use up fat reserves and may even dip into their own muscle to get the necessary proteins and fats to provide glucose and energy for their bodies. So carbohydrates themselves are not actually necessary; glucose is necessary, and that can be obtained from sources other than carbohydrates.

What about the brain? The brain is preferentially given glucose above all other organs. Glucose in its ready form, at that. But does this mean carbohydrates are necessary? Since glucose can be had from protein and Acetyl CoA from fat, then no.

What about the claim of protein and fat—when converted to energy—weakening the immune system? This seems to be taken from human research where athletes in intensive training had suppressed immune systems which could be improved by consuming proper amounts of carbohydrate. Additionally, white blood cell production in humans seems linked to glucose production. More glucose present means the body is better able to mount an immune response—until there is "too much" glucose around and insulin spikes and starts suppressing all other pathways in the body except for those needed to force the glucose into cells (fat cells). High amounts of simple carbohydrates and sugars are known to suppress the immune system. If this is the case, though, one could wonder how a diet high in grain affects our pets—overstimulation of the immune system due to high concentrations of glucose from the grain? Perhaps this is why many pets suffer "allergies" while on grain!

One other comment I have here is that as long as the animal is receiving appropriate fat and protein, glucose production will not be an issue. And for carnivorous animals like dogs, I cannot help but wonder if their white blood cells are more sensitive to glucose than ours--meaning, less glucose is needed to "stimulate" canine white blood cell (WBC) production compared to human WBC production.

Using protein and fat for energy does not weaken the immune system unless there is not enough to go around, so to speak. If someone is starving, then using protein and fats for energy—while necessary—is a little 'cost-intensive' on the body. But it is not the lack of carbs that is hurting them; it is the simple lack of enough food. Similarly, a human athlete in intensive training may overwork their body to the point that using protein and fats for fuel becomes too cost-intensive to their body.

What about poor hair growth and constant shedding resulting from a lack of carbohydrates? Can these indicate a 'need' for carbs? Maybe, but more likely it indicates a need for better overall nutrition. I personally have NEVER heard of 'carbohydrate deficiency' in any animal. Why? Because there is NO SUCH THING as a "necessary carbohydrate," just necessary glucose. Our bodies, and our dogs' bodies, can do without carbohydrates (although I would say our dogs would fare better than humans, since we are omnivores who do well with fresh vegetables in our diet—except for some cultures that eat mostly meat!). Fats and proteins can be converted easily to Acetyl CoA and glucose, respectively. Poor hair growth and constant shedding are linked to an overall poor diet, poor consumption of essential fatty acids, biotin deficiencies, some vitamin and mineral deficiencies, AND a lack of good fats and proteins in the diet. PROTEIN, not carbohydrate, is the building block for hair and skin and all other parts of the body. Carbohydrates do nothing for building and maintaining the body structures except provide easy glucose to fuel the rebuilding process.

What about thyroid function? Thyroid function is dependent upon the correct amount of GLUCOSE produced by the dog's body, not by the correct amount of carbohydrates in the diet. Too much glucose from easily available carbohydrate energy sources can cause just as many problems as not enough glucose. Since we have already established that glucose can be produced from protein (or even skipped during fat metabolism, where Acetyl CoA is used instead), then it would again seem that carbohydrates are actually unnecessary provided that there is enough protein and fat to go around (and a raw diet has PLENTY!).

B compounds, or B vitamins, are found not only in the dog's own intestine (bacteria produce some B vitamins) but also in the meat and organs of prey animals. Feeding a variety of organ meats as part of a proper raw diet will cover the B-vitamin requirement quite easily. One has to wonder--how much of the B compounds in grain and starch and veggies is actually available to the dog? Compared to something more bioavailable like liver, then I would say 'not much.'

 

i use whole grain brown rice in my dog food ( i make my own)
i use it because one of my dogs has g/i issues, and the rice helps out "solidifying" things

for what its worth, each dog of mine gets ...
1 cup rice
1/2 cup pulled grilled chicken breast
1/2 cup pan fried ground beef (75% lean)
1/2 cup diced pork steak
1 baked russett potato
1/3 granny smith apple
3 tablespoons of real yogurt (w/ active cultures)

that is a normal meal for my dogs. it really has made a huge difference in their health, energy levels, etc.
with all the problems in today's kibble, its easier to just make my own food and not worry about it-even problems w/ the high end stuff now and again, so i dont take the chances anymore

 

Excellent post. It should be a sticky. Also, your avitar should be the pic of Maximus flying. (IMO) That pic is hot.
@Rallyracer, we coming to your house for dinner.
Pa people, Costco's High Performance (purple bag) is decent stuff for commercial food. I add rice 2x a week, and 3x a week, seperated by every other week intervals. A daily teaspoon of coconut oil, during periods of "High Activity", will help build up fat reserves to overcome the "WALL". The "WALL", is what is reffered to as the period (usually 12 - 20 min) of time where the dogs begins to convert stored energy. Sometimes referred to as a "SECOND WIND".
Again, excellent post Maximusflys. It will definately get my wheels spinning.

 

From what I've read, whole grain rice is better that white, that's for humans too. A lot of ppl that go raw use cooked whole grain rice.

 

Corn does not have no nutritanal value. no ssignaficant digestant

Rice on the other hand has carbohydrates and easilt to digest.

 

And why do dogs need carbs?

 

Energy and rice is softer on there stomach, same as humans you want to get your dog lean and muscualr feed a40% protein 20% carbs and 20 percent fat.

And give them good workouts at least that works for me.

 

They get energy from fats and proteins. Carbs are not needed for dogs. Humans and dogs are nothing alike and cannot even come closely to being related. 40% protein, 20% fats, and 0% for carbs. The only benefit that comes from carbs is that is digested alot quicker than fats and proteins and works great for competing for different types of of events for that quick burst of energy other than that carbs are useless in an everyday diet. It serves no purpose when they get the same things from fats and proteins. My dog hasn't touched any grains in almost three years and he has never been more lean and muscular than ever before.